# PIN and Chip Credit Cards **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-and-chip-credit-cards/680332 "2014-02-02T04:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-and-chip-credit-cards/680332/21 "2014-02-03T04:46:52Z")
Re: “use a debit card as if credit”… That must mean a transaction that gets posted to your debit account later. Is that correct? That would make it an offline transaction. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-and-chip-credit-cards/680332/22 "2014-02-03T09:06:49Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Chip and PIN is more secure in some ways, less in others. > > It eliminates the need for retail cashiers to subjectively verify a signature, but (in the UK at least), the PIN is stored on the card to facilitate offline validation, so its possible for a technically competent card thief to extract the PIN and then make completely unchallenged transactions. The thief would also have to have stolen the physical card. Under the current system, the thief merely needs to steal the magnetic stripe data, which can be stolen in many ways, and you would not be the wiser. With the chip/pin system, the thief has to steal the pin number (easiest way is probably with a skimming keypad or something) AND steal the physical card. The moment you notice the physical card missing and report it stolen, the thief’s stealing spree is over. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-and-chip-credit-cards/680332/23 "2014-02-03T10:30:10Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Chip and PIN is more secure in some ways, less in others. > > It eliminates the need for retail cashiers to subjectively verify a signature, but (in the UK at least), the PIN is stored on the card to facilitate offline validation, so its possible for a technically competent card thief to extract the PIN and then make completely unchallenged transactions. This site [Chip and SPIN](http://www.chipandspin.co.uk/problems.html) goes into the pro’s and cons of C&P in some detail. Here is what it says about extracting the PIN: > [@](#): > > Physical attacks can already extract secrets from Chip and PIN smartcards, but the procedure is time consuming and costly. This means that it would typically cost more money to get the PIN out of a card than could be withdrawn by the thief before the theft of the card is noticed. However, there are regular advances in technology for attacking smartcards, and the banks will have to try and stay ahead in this race by issuing newer more secure cards every time a new advance is made. After reading that site, I can see how insecure cards in general are, but they do seem to believe that C&P is, at least, less insecure. For the majority of us, taking a few simple precautions, will divert the thief’s attention to someone less careful. On the question of debit/credit transactions, we have separate cards, and each have their uses: If a credit card transaction turns out to be fraudulent, in most cases the CC issuer bears the loss - If I buy a holiday on my CC and the company goes bust, I will get my money back. However, if I draw cash from my CC, I will be paying interest from day one. Also, it is not unusual to have a surcharge added to the bill if paid by CC. DD cards are pretty much the same as cheques. There is little or no protection from fraud, and they open up access to your entire current account. On the other hand, there is no extra cost for using them. The generally accepted wisdom here is to use CCs for general purchases (where there is no surcharge) and to clear the account every month, thus avoiding interest payments. Debit cards are for withdrawing cash and paying some bills, like government charges, that would be more costly with a CC. When it comes to paying for a holiday, the trick is to pay the deposit with a CC (thus gaining protection) and the balance with a debit card (thus avoiding any surcharge) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-and-chip-credit-cards/680332/24 "2014-02-03T12:46:17Z")
> [@turner](#): > > I checked with my credit card company, and they said, no problem except that if I do, I’ll have to have a chip and pin credit card for the life of the account, i.e. for ever. the way they made that sound, made me pause… The account’s life could end right after your trip, if you call and cancel the account at that time. Then you immediately open up a new account, presumably with a PINless card. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-and-chip-credit-cards/680332/25 "2014-02-03T13:16:22Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > The thief would also have to have stolen the physical card. Under the current system, the thief merely needs to steal the magnetic stripe data, which can be stolen in many ways, and you would not be the wiser. With the chip/pin system, the thief has to steal the pin number (easiest way is probably with a skimming keypad or something) AND steal the physical card. The moment you notice the physical card missing and report it stolen, the thief’s stealing spree is over. Yes - that is what I meant - a physically stolen card - and yes, it does only afford a relatively short window of likely opportunity to the thief. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-and-chip-credit-cards/680332/26 "2014-02-03T13:19:09Z")
> [@Dahu](#): > > How easy is this? “Technically competent” makes it sound like it’s an everyday occurrence. As I understand it, the UK implementation of Chip and PIN is such that the conversation between the card and reader is unencrypted. it does rely on physical access to the card, which is probably why it’s not a huge, widespread problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-and-chip-credit-cards/680332.md?page=1)