# PIN Number **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 6, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620 "2004-04-06T20:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![King\_Friday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@King\_Friday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Friday)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/1 "2004-04-06T20:42:08Z")
Oh boy do I hate to hear people say PIN nunber, or VIN number for that matter. Personal Identification Number number? What are some other despicable phrases you hear on a normal basis? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/2 "2004-04-06T20:46:27Z")
“ATM machine.” Drives me _bonkers_. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/3 "2004-04-06T20:49:00Z")
MTCN number…money transfer control number number. Gah! ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/4 "2004-04-06T21:07:29Z")
Ooohhhh tautologies, one of my pet peeves… “At this moment in time…” “Stupid idiot” “CAD design” ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/5 "2004-04-06T21:13:30Z")
This is just a WAG guess 😉 on my part, but “PIN Number” is probably called that because people could get confused with “pin”, like a pushpin,\* so adding “number” to indicate you’re talking about the four- or five-digit code for banking or other security purposes. If only “PI Number” had caught on then there wouldn’t be a problem. Can’t explain “ATM,” though. \*Note: This may seem dumb, but remember that most people are dumb. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Friday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@King\_Friday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Friday)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/6 "2004-04-06T21:27:35Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Ooohhhh tautologies…" So, there is a word for those. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/7 "2004-04-06T21:59:33Z")
Or how about that TV show Navy NCIS AKA Navy Navy Criminal Investagative Service. ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/8 "2004-04-06T22:07:45Z")
Yeah, I don’t know. I think I’m more bothered by people that are extremely bothered when someone says “PIN number” than I am bothered by the saying of “PIN number” itself. Here’s how I think of it: sure, “PIN” does stand for “personal identification number,” so PIN number really is personal identification number number, but that doesn’t really matter all that much. It just so happens that the number you use at the ATM has come to be known as your PIN number. So that’s its name, PIN number. What PIN stands for is absolutely inconsequential. What about “SCUBA gear”? SCUBA stands for self-contained underwater breathing apparatus, and “apparatus” means essentially the same thing as gear, so why doesn’t that one bother you? Probably because it’s just called scuba gear. Language doesn’t have to be logical, it just is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/9 "2004-04-06T22:22:45Z")
As an annoying pedant, I’ll occasionally reply to sentences containing “PIN number” or “ATM machine” with “Personal identification number number?” or “Automatic teller machine machine?” Makes ME feel better, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/10 "2004-04-06T22:41:27Z")
Innocent bystander: “I forgot my PIN number for the ATM machine!” [Is promptly beaten to death by **Eve** and **King Friday**] ---
**Author:** ![King\_Friday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@King\_Friday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Friday)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/11 "2004-04-06T22:52:46Z")
> [@TaxGuy](#): > > So that’s its name, PIN number. What PIN stands for is absolutely inconsequential. That sort of explains how I’ve gotten over RBIs. I used to always say RsBI. But then I came to the conclusion that a run batted in is called an RBI because that’s what it’s called, not because of what it stands for. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/12 "2004-04-06T23:13:40Z")
This phenomenon is known as Redundant Acronym Syndrome, or RAS syndrome for short. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/13 "2004-04-06T23:22:34Z")
Kmart **s** or **Meijer** s\*\* It is singular, unless you go to two Kmart/Meijer in one day. Then it is Kmarts. size=1]And I don’t know where, if at all, to put the ’ . [/size] This drives me completely batshit. ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/14 "2004-04-06T23:31:35Z")
A work-related redundancy: FOD damage (FOD = Foreign Object Damage) So you end up with “Foreign Object Damage damage.” Argh. ---
**Author:** ![YellowTail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5ac83/32.png) [@YellowTail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YellowTail)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/15 "2004-04-06T23:33:56Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > This phenomenon is known as Redundant Acronym Syndrome, or RAS syndrome for short. Department of Redundancy Department? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/16 "2004-04-06T23:55:15Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > This phenomenon is known as Redundant Acronym Syndrome, or RAS syndrome for short. Surely they’re Superfluous Unnecessary Tautologies? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![InTransit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@InTransit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InTransit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/17 "2004-04-07T00:13:00Z")
… because if you say “PI number” some smart ass is bound to start reciting Pi to some ridiculous number of digits? My current irritation is “ISP Provider.” ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/18 "2004-04-07T00:20:28Z")
Oh, there’s plenty in computing: GUI interface GPL licence Outdated, but DOS Operating System _still_ grates NTFS file system ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/19 "2004-04-07T00:52:19Z")
I mentioned this thread to my wife and she immediately came up with SAT Test ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620/20 "2004-04-07T00:57:30Z")
GCSE certificate (one for the English) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pin-number/238620.md?page=2)