# Pink Floyd, Before and After Syd **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619 "2009-08-07T11:54:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/1 "2009-08-07T11:54:30Z")
I’ve recently reacquainted myself with some Floyd music. Like a long lost lover, I’ve been awash in the sonic familiarity of the Floyd’s music as of late. I have a question. Is there anyone that likes Pink Floyd’s earlier stuff with Syd Barret _more_ than their later stuff without him? Honestly, I think a lot of the Barret-inspired music can border on unlistenable. Some of the stuff, like “Careful With That Axe, Eugene”, “One Of These Days…” and other songs definetely foreshadow the type of band the Floyd were turning into. But some of Syd’s stuff, like “Vegetable Man”, Scream Thy Last Scream" are just terrible to me. I don’t see how anyone could like that stuff better or even equal to the material on “Dark Side Of The Moon” and everything that came after. Is it just me? Are there more Syd tunes that I need to check out? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/2 "2009-08-07T12:02:12Z")
When I read your thread title, before I opened the thread, the first word that came into my mind concerning Pink Floyd with Syd was “unlistenable”. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/3 "2009-08-07T12:05:11Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > When I read your thread title, before I opened the thread, the first word that came into my mind concerning Pink Floyd with Syd was “unlistenable”. As I’m also re-reading the book “Saucerful Of Secrets”, I’m trying to juxtapose all the glowing commentary about what a genius Syd was, etc against actually listening to some of the music, and frankly, I just can’t agree with the book’s conclusion. Other than that Syd took a lot of LSD, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/4 "2009-08-07T12:07:53Z")
But Vegetable Man and Scream Thy Last Scream were not released on a studio album. It would be like judging Epic Era Floyd from the Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, which Roger wanted to do as a Floyd album but they did The Wall instead. That said, while I like them both, I do like Epic Era Floyd more than Syd Era, but Syd beats out Post-Syd/Pre Darkside and Post-breakup Floyd. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/5 "2009-08-07T12:17:17Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > But Vegetable Man and Scream Thy Last Scream were not released on a studio album. It would be like judging Epic Era Floyd from the Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, which Roger wanted to do as a Floyd album but they did The Wall instead. > > That said, while I like them both, I do like Epic Era Floyd more than Syd Era, but Syd beats out Post-Syd/Pre Darkside and Post-breakup Floyd. Can you give me an example of a really good Syd Barret Floyd tune (that isn’t an instrumental) for me to listen to? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/6 "2009-08-07T12:24:32Z")
I think their Syd Barrett stuff, while good, was not as good as what they started doing just after he left. It’s on the par with the weaker Roger Waters material like **Dark Side of the Moon**. Good, but not great. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/7 "2009-08-07T12:24:38Z")
Well, I like the Syd stuff, although it’s a long time since I’ve listened to any. Dear me, must get a working record player one day. 😃 However, we might be looking at it from different angles - I mainly like the whimsical- silliness-albeit-with-serious-twinges of some of his stuff. Nothing like later Pink Floyd of course. I think you are taking a more serious and intellecutal view of it than I. 🙂 Bikes! Mouse called Gerald! Gnomes! And the harrowing tale of the Effervescing Elephant! How can you not like? Yeah, very very not later Pink Floyd. 😃 In fact, I was once buying either a very early Floyd or perhaps a solo Syd record in a second-hand place and the nice shopkeeper man , seeing as the other thing I was buying was very mainstream and of the moment, was at pains to point out to me that I would find this one VERY different if I was expecting Pink Floyd and perhaps I would not like it. Sort of sweet of him, really. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/8 "2009-08-07T12:28:21Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I think their Syd Barrett stuff, while good, was not as good as what they started doing just after he left. It’s on the par with the weaker Roger Waters material like **Dark Side of the Moon**. Good, but not great. You think _Dark Side Of The Moon_ is "weaker Roger Waters material? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/9 "2009-08-07T12:31:32Z")
I think that if you’re looking at Syd-era Floyd through DSOTM-colored glasses, you might be looking for a sort of sweeping classicism that wasn’t necessarily what was going on at the time of Syd-era Floyd. And they were still young, didn’t have David Gilmour, etc. Someone who sees the White Album or Sgt. Peppers as the greatest Beatles albums might look at Meet The Beatles the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/10 "2009-08-07T12:33:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > As I’m also re-reading the book “Saucerful Of Secrets”, I’m trying to juxtapose all the glowing commentary about what a genius Syd was, etc against actually listening to some of the music, and frankly, I just can’t agree with the book’s conclusion. Other than that Syd took a lot of LSD, of course. I went through the exact process with the same book. Syd left the group when I was 14, before I became interested in Floyd, so I really wasn’t familiar with his music. I think Meddle was the first album I heard. A couple of years ago I read Saucerful of Secrets, and was moved by the book’s descriptions of Syd’s music to give it a listen. I was really disappointed. On preview: RealityChuck: Really?!? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/11 "2009-08-07T13:07:23Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > I think that if you’re looking at Syd-era Floyd through DSOTM-colored glasses, you might be looking for a sort of sweeping classicism that wasn’t necessarily what was going on at the time of Syd-era Floyd. And they were still young, didn’t have David Gilmour, etc. > > Someone who sees the White Album or Sgt. Peppers as the greatest Beatles albums might look at Meet The Beatles the same way. You’re probably right, but what I’m not totally getting is all the accolades that were thrown around in reference to Syd at the time he was “at the height of his powers”. I just don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/12 "2009-08-07T13:22:49Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Honestly, I think a lot of the Barret-inspired music can border on unlistenable. Some of the stuff, like “Careful With That Axe, Eugene”, “One Of These Days…” and other songs definetely foreshadow the type of band the Floyd were turning into. Those songs are not from the Syd Barrett era, which basically lasted for only one album (plus a couple of leftovers on the second album). I’ve always said that there was Syd’s Floyd, and later Roger’s Floyd, and finally David’s Floyd; but my own favorite material has always been the stuff they did post-Syd but pre-_Dark Side_, when they were Floyd’s Floyd–a band of equals. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/13 "2009-08-07T13:28:45Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Those songs are not from the Syd Barrett era, which basically lasted for only one album (plus a couple of leftovers on the second album). > > I’ve always said that there was Syd’s Floyd, and later Roger’s Floyd, and finally David’s Floyd; but my own favorite material has always been the stuff they did post-Syd but pre-_Dark Side_, when they were Floyd’s Floyd–a band of equals. Interesting. _Dark Side Of The Moon_ is almost universally accepted as their pinnacle achievement, although I’m partial to the paranoia of _The Wall_, myself. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/14 "2009-08-07T13:45:01Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > You think _Dark Side Of The Moon_ is "weaker Roger Waters material? Depends on what you compare it to. Among music in general of the time, it’s among many good albums. Among Pink Floyd, it’s definitely one of their less interesting efforts. I bought **Dark Side** the week is was released. My first thought after listening to it was, “Well, Pink Floyd has sold out and gone commercial.” But it is no where near their best music (both **Meddle** and **Wish You Were Here** are far superior, and **Atom Heart Mother** and **Ummagumma** are also greater albums. **Dark Side** is about the same level as **The Division Bell** , though less musically interesting. It’s sort of “Pink Floyd for Dummies.” ( **The Wall** is marginally better, but still not their best work by any means. I agree wholeheartedly with **Biffy**. ---
**Author:** ![Ichbin\_Dubist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ichbin\_Dubist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichbin_Dubist)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/15 "2009-08-07T14:09:45Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Can you give me an example of a really good Syd Barret Floyd tune (that isn’t an instrumental) for me to listen to? As no one has answered this question – the first two Floyd singles, “Arnold Layne” and “See Emily Play,” are probably his strongest pop tunes. I like “Lucifer Sam,” too. Most of his other songs – “Bike,” “Apples and Oranges,” “Jugband Blues,” and both of his solo records – are kind of the sound of a mind coming apart and it’s a little disconcerting. He could write great melodies and has flashes of odd humor but most of his songs tend to be trapped in the loop of their own eccentricity. Of his solo stuff, try “Baby Lemonade” or “Octopus” – catchy, odd tunes that can’t quite seem to find their way. As far as holding Syd above all else, the people who love, say, Daniel Johnston or Alexander Spence’s _Oar_ or Wild Man Fischer are probably not mostly the same people who bought millions of copies of _Dark Side of the Moon._ ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/16 "2009-08-07T15:01:45Z")
> [@Ichbin\_Dubist](#): > > As no one has answered this question – the first two Floyd singles, “Arnold Layne” and “See Emily Play,” are probably his strongest pop tunes. I like “Lucifer Sam,” too. Most of his other songs – “Bike,” “Apples and Oranges,” “Jugband Blues,” and both of his solo records – are kind of the sound of a mind coming apart and it’s a little disconcerting. He could write great melodies and has flashes of odd humor but most of his songs tend to be trapped in the loop of their own eccentricity. Of his solo stuff, try “Baby Lemonade” or “Octopus” – catchy, odd tunes that can’t quite seem to find their way. > > As far as holding Syd above all else, the people who love, say, Daniel Johnston or Alexander Spence’s _Oar_ or Wild Man Fischer are probably not mostly the same people who bought millions of copies of _Dark Side of the Moon._ Thanks. I’ve heard “Arnold Layne” and “See Emily Play”, but I want to check out these others. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/17 "2009-08-07T15:11:58Z")
> [@Ichbin\_Dubist](#): > > Most of his other songs – “Bike,” “Apples and Oranges,” “Jugband Blues,” and both of his solo records – are kind of the sound of a mind coming apart and it’s a little disconcerting. I agree, if you want light psychedelia that’s disconcerting, thought provoking, yet harmless at the same time, you can’t go wrong with those, plus [del]let’s roll another one[/del] Candy and a Currant Bun. (Jugband Blues isn’t exactly harmless). ---
**Author:** ![Mllz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Mllz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mllz)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/18 "2009-08-07T16:34:02Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Can you give me an example of a really good Syd Barret Floyd tune (that isn’t an instrumental) for me to listen to? I absolutely love the _Piper at the Gates of Dawn_ album, and–at least according to allmusic.com–nearly every track was written by Barrett at least in part, with most written by him entirely. As others have stated, it’s very different stylistically than the post-Barrett albums, but for my money no less brilliant. Some of my faves on that album from the ones attributed solely to Barrett: [ul] [li]Matilda Mother[/li][li]Scarecrow[/li][li]Lucifer Sam[/li][li]Chapter 24[/li][/ul] Likewise, See Emily Play is among my very favorite songs of theirs. His songwriting is quite pop-based, using simple structures and melodies, and yet doesn’t really sound like anything else going on at the time (especially since it’s offset by the darker sounds and unusual arrangements that the rest of the band brings to the material). As **Ichbin Dubist** notes, there _is_ a sense of a mind coming apart in much of his songwriting. Perhaps that’s part of the appeal for me…? I get the same sense from the aforementioned _Oar_ by Skip Spence, and it’s the quirky departures from otherwise straightforward pop songwriting that highlight the brilliance. I can totally get why it’s off-putting to many fans of Floyd’s later work… there’s no particular reason why someone who likes one era should be interested in the others. For my part, I like it all–for different reasons–right up until _The Wall_ (which always seemed kinda lacking, songwriting-wise). ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/19 "2009-08-07T16:52:58Z")
I’m another who thinks “Lucifer Sam” kicks ass. I also like “Matilda Mother”, “Astronomy Domine”, and “Scarecrow”… another favorite of mine is “Flaming”. But it’s understandable that a lot of people would be left cold by this stuff. It’s very quirky, odd, and I guess dated. People who like epic era Floyd would probably not have too much trouble grasping “Lucifer Sam”, “Matilda Mother” and “Astronomy Domine”, but “Scarecrow” and “Flaming” are another thing entirely. Very fey British psychedelia. I don’t know that I like Syd-era Floyd better than what came after. They’re just different. The Syd stuff was groundbreaking, experimental, and uneven. Same, perhaps, could be said for the several albums that came after. Then they began to settle into an increasingly comfortable groove. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619/20 "2009-08-07T16:55:40Z")
It took me a while, but I actually found a song on **Piper** that I actively LIKE, as opposed to merely appreciating from a musical historical perspective: [Flaming](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A9iPFF5Yrs) **cjepson** just barely beat me to it… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-floyd-before-and-after-syd/505619.md?page=2)