# Pink locker rooms and a knee jerk feminist.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 23, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982 "2005-09-23T00:23:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/61 "2005-09-23T19:39:12Z")
Well ok, I can see what you mean now **Excalibre**. I sort of agree with your stance, in that I think it’s a piffling thing to get riled up about, and there are much bigger things she could be using her spotlight time to draw attention to. I think that it served a dual pupose myself, but that the one he’d admit to was that it was a soothing color. You have to remember how fresh the school of thought was, and how a devious coach might be tempted to use such a “double edged sword”.
/hijack
Is this:
> [@](#):
>
> I personally don’t care about the visiting locker rooms. What pisses me off is how inaccessible the hospital becomes on football Saturdays. I know firsthand stories of doctors not being able to make it in when called, people visiting loved ones having their cars pelted with beer cans by drunken tailgaters (presumably because of the out of state plates) and other nonsense. More good comes out of that hospital in one hour than that entire football program has produced since its inception, but the university chooses to renovate Kinnick instead of moving it (and the crowds and drunken assholes that come with it) away from the hospital.
statment made by an anonymous person in the blog even remotely true? :eek:
/hijack
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/62 "2005-09-23T19:42:53Z")
**twin infinitive** and **beagledave,** I’m not saying that pink doesn’t have a calming effect, it may very well. I’m saying that I don’t believe Fry for a second when he says that’s why he picked it. If he were interested in calming the other team he could have gone a lot farther. Perhaps musak or ocean noises piped into the locker room. He could have put big comfy furniture everywhere. He could have painted angels on the walls.
It is obviously an insult. (on preview, what **Excalibre** said.)
BTW **twin infinitive** , it sounds like someone needs a nap.
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### Author:  [@SparrowHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SparrowHawk)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/63 "2005-09-23T19:53:07Z")
What needs to be done now, is find out if it actually works. Establish some measure of pre-vs-post-locker-room-exposure aggression (testosterone levels, or something) and whether the difference, if any, can be attributable to more Iowa wins. (Does Iowa win a lot? I wouldn’t know.) Did the team that covered up the walls win? What is the proper way to construct a double-blind study of the alleged biopsychological phenomenon? :dubious: **KRM** , I like the angels idea. How about some aromatherapy while we’re at it? Lavender is soothing. You could spritz the home team locker room with citrus or peppermint. Or pure testosterone.
ISTM the gist of the objection to the (somewhat sophomoric, IMO) locker-room ethos of insulting an opponent by sending the message “You are a contemptible and unworthy adversary because you’re like a gur-rul”, is because that attitude has been associated, not with a reasonable expectation of what the average woman may or may not be capable of on a ball field, but with a general contempt for the unworthiness of all women because their capabilities are not commensurate with men’s in certain areas of value to some men. I think that ethos is worth objecting to, but there may be more important and effective arenas for it (eg; Post #37, if true).
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### Author:  [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/64 "2005-09-23T19:53:12Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> I agree with **Otto**. It’s not that this woman’s complaint is groundless, it’s just that it’s incredibly petty. It’s also a dumb interpretation of the situation. This little bit of psychological warfare only works on misogynists. A guy on the other team who has no issues with sex or sexuality isn’t going to give a shit if the lockers are pink. It’s only the most insecure of homophobes and woman-haters who are going to get freaked out by a “girly” color. What this locker room does is attack people through their prejudices, manipulating and exploiting their character flaws. This has got to be the most pro-Feminist locker room in college football history.
>
> [sub]I’ve always sworn to use my powers of post-modernism for good.[/sub]
Stop. Making. Sense.
BTW, can anyone tell me where we can find a sizeable collection of misogynists and homophobes? 😉
Another sidenote: Isn’t red the most aggressive of colors? (and please, no political joking remarks, that’s not what I’m looking for)…and if so (and pink is passive), does it follow that white might be the most passive of all colors? 😕
I only ask this because I totally avoided psychology in college and know jack about it.
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### Author:  [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/65 "2005-09-23T20:35:13Z")
> [@KRM](#):
>
> **twin infinitive** and **beagledave,** I’m not saying that pink doesn’t have a calming effect, it may very well. I’m saying that I don’t believe Fry for a second when he says that’s why he picked it. If he were interested in calming the other team he could have gone a lot farther. Perhaps musak or ocean noises piped into the locker room. He could have put big comfy furniture everywhere. He could have painted angels on the walls.
Your argument against Fry’s reasoning (and I supplied the cites for the kind of thinking that “could” have influenced Fry) is that he COULD have done more…so therefore it’s not true?
Well he COULD have painted signs on the walls saying “you’re all a bunch of girly-men”, and he COULD have referred to his opponents as “pussies” in his press conferences. And he COULD have piped in “California Girls” or some equally appropriate music to the locker room. And he COULD have left baskets of potpourri and makeup (substitute other stereotypical female “supplies”) in the locker room. So the fact that he COULD have done more, but didn’t proves (by your logic) that insulting their masculinity was not the motivating factor…right?
:dubious:
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### Author:  [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/66 "2005-09-23T20:36:39Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> To analogize: let us suppose that two women are talking about how to console a crying infant, and they say of another woman that “she looks and sounds like a man when she’s holding that baby.” Should I, as a man, be insulted by that?
From past thread experience I’ll testify there’s a very vocal contingent (at least on this board) who’d be shouting “reverse sexism” if that happened.
But that’s not the point. The insult isn’t “I’m comparing your athletic skills to females, which are somewhat less than males on average.” The insult is “you’re all just a bunch of _girls_.” Meaning weak, dainty, shameful, helpless, useless, etc.
What, you never picked up on how sports assholes sling “lady” and “girl” as plain old nasty epithets? And all of them, including that coach, can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned. Unless they’re funny. But in this case I think we’re talking about your average thick-skulled knuckle-dragger.
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/67 "2005-09-23T20:58:55Z")
> [@beagledave](#):
>
> Your argument against Fry’s reasoning (and I supplied the cites for the kind of thinking that “could” have influenced Fry) is that he COULD have done more…so therefore it’s not true?
>
> Well he COULD have painted signs on the walls saying “you’re all a bunch of girly-men”, and he COULD have referred to his opponents as “pussies” in his press conferences. And he COULD have piped in “California Girls” or some equally appropriate music to the locker room. And he COULD have left baskets of potpourri and makeup (substitute other stereotypical female “supplies”) in the locker room. So the fact that he COULD have done more, but didn’t proves (by your logic) that insulting their masculinity was not the motivating factor…right?
> :dubious:
If you choose to believe that a boy raised in west Texas, former marine and football coach for umpteen years painted the walls pink for its “calming effect”, that’s fine. Don’t be surprised that others believe it was just an obvious insult.
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/68 "2005-09-23T21:08:19Z")
> [@uglybeech](#):
>
> What, you never picked up on how sports assholes sling “lady” and “girl” as plain old nasty epithets? And all of them, including that coach, can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned. Unless they’re funny. But in this case I think we’re talking about your average thick-skulled knuckle-dragger.
Well, the title role in the show Coach (Hayden Fox) was loosely based upon Hayden Fry so he is at least probably partly funny.
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/69 "2005-09-23T21:14:03Z")
Here’s a good cite for you **beagledave** , from [The Iowa Alumni Magazine:](http://www.iowalum.com/magazine/dec89/coach.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Fry doesn’t do much of anything without a reason. Totally dedicated to his teams and giving his players every opportunity to succeed, he had the visitors’ locker room painted pink to intimidate the opposition.
Note the word intimidate and not calm.
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### Author:  [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/70 "2005-09-23T21:18:50Z")
> [@KRM](#):
>
> If you choose to believe that a boy raised in west Texas, former marine and football coach for umpteen years painted the walls pink for its “calming effect”, that’s fine. Don’t be surprised that others believe it was just an obvious insult.
So I take it you don’t apply the standards of logic (He COULD have done more gosh darnit!!) to “your” theory?
I’m not _surprised_ that others believe in a hollow earth either…of course those folks are pretty easy to dismiss when they lack an ability to support their position with any credibility…
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### Author:  [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/71 "2005-09-23T21:29:27Z")
My daughter (a civil engineer) was working a job site where everyone who went on site was required to wear a hardhat, even truck drivers making deliveries, whether they stayed in the cab or not. They lost several dozen hardhats each month because the drivers would borrow one to enter the site, and neglect to return it.
They switched the hardhat color to something that she called “pussy pink”, cutting losses by over 75%. Apparently none of the Teamsters was interested in a pink hard hat. She didn’t have any information about whether it made them less aggressive though.
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### Author:  [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/72 "2005-09-23T21:32:07Z")
> [@KRM](#):
>
> Well, the title role in the show Coach (Hayden Fox) was loosely based upon Hayden Fry so he is at least probably partly funny.
\*Coach \* was funny?
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### Author:  [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/73 "2005-09-23T21:35:03Z")
> [@KRM](#):
>
> Here’s a good cite for you **beagledave** , from [The Iowa Alumni Magazine:](http://www.iowalum.com/magazine/dec89/coach.html)
> Note the word intimidate and not calm.
LOL…you’re rich!! Me thinks one needs to learn what hyperbole is…
I guess you’re trying to be literal and stuff, huh?
> [@](#):
>
> in·tim·i·date P Pronunciation Key (n-tm-dt)
> tr.v. in·tim·i·dat·ed, in·tim·i·dat·ing, in·tim·i·dates
> To make timid; fill with fear.
> To coerce or inhibit by or as if by threats.
Does calling someone a football team “pussies” “fill them with fear”?
Does it “coerce or inhibit” them? You’re saying that a pink locker room insulted them by making them feel all girlie inside, and therefore filled them with FEAR?
Which is it…was Hayden insulting them or intimidating them?
Hey I can play cite game also!!!
> [@](#):
>
> Knowing that pink tends to supress aggressive and hostile behavior, Fry had the visiting locker rooms decorated completely in pink
> **[Kinnick Stadium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinnick_Stadium)**
>
> Kinnick Stadium is a stadium located in Iowa City, Iowa, United States. It is the home stadium of the University of Iowa Hawkeyes. First opened in 1929 to replace Iowa Field, it currently holds up to 69,250 people, making it the 7th largest stadium in the Big Ten, and one of the 20 largest university owned stadiums in the nation. Primarily used for college football, it is named for Nile Kinnick, the 1939 university's sole Heisman Trophy winner, who died in service during World War II. It was nam...
> [@](#):
>
> The most romantic color, pink, is more tranquilizing. Sports teams sometimes paint the locker rooms used by opposing teams bright pink so their opponents will lose energy.
> **[Color Psychology](https://www.infoplease.com/culture-entertainment/art-architecture/color-psychology)**
>
> How colors affect people's moods and have different meanings in various cultures
> [@](#):
>
> One of the most interesting examples of color effects is Baker-Miller Pink - a color that’s close to the bubble gum pink background color of this web page ( R:255, G:145, B:175) . Also known as “drunk tank pink,” this color is used to calm violent prisoners in jails. Dr. Alexander Schauss, Ph.D., director of the American Institute for Biosocial Research in Tacoma Washington, was the first to report the suppression of angry, antagonistic, and anxiety ridden behavior among prisoners: “Even if a person tries to be angry or aggressive in the presence of pink, he can’t. The heart muscles can’t race fast enough. It’s a tranquilizing color that saps your energy. Even the color-blind are tranquilized by pink rooms.
[http://www.colormatters.com/body\_pink.html](http://www.colormatters.com/body_pink.html)
> [@](#):
>
> In case you don’t know the legend, here’s a recap: In one of his more brilliant gambits, Fry ordered the walls of the old visiting locker room at Kinnick painted pink. A psychology major, Iowa’s football coach reasoned that the soothing color might placate some of the savage beasts that had pounded on the Hawkeyes for much of the 1970s.
>
> And, heck, if that didn’t work, it would at least give them something to think about - and complain about - rather than focus on the game. The old fox never missed a trick.
[http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050821/SPORTS05/508210354/1003/SPORTS](http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050821/SPORTS05/508210354/1003/SPORTS)
> [@](#):
>
> The pink was started by legendary Hawkeye coach Hayden Fry to soften the mood of opposing teams.
[http://www.whotv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3773885](http://www.whotv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3773885)
> [@](#):
>
> It was former coach Hayden Fry, not Mary Kay, who chose to paint the walls of the visitor’s locker room at Iowa’s Kinnick Stadium pink. The theory was the soothing color might take some of the fight out of Iowa’s foes.
[http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/10/Sports/Gameday.shtml](http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/10/Sports/Gameday.shtml)
> [@](#):
>
> In the lovely, legendary pink locker rooms Hayden Fry fashioned at Iowa to pacify opponents…
[http://www.madison.com/tct/sports/index.php?ntid=53547&ntpid=1](http://www.madison.com/tct/sports/index.php?ntid=53547&ntpid=1)
Hey I have seven times as many cites as you…I win the INTRAWEBS! 😉
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### Author:  [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/74 "2005-09-23T21:37:12Z")
> [@beagledave](#):
>
> So I take it you don’t apply the standards of logic (He COULD have done more gosh darnit!!) to “your” theory?
It’s a _joke_, Commander Data. Logic won’t help you understand it. You need an emotion chip.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/75 "2005-09-23T21:49:03Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#):
>
> BTW, can anyone tell me where we can find a sizeable collection of misogynists and homophobes?
[Found some!](http://www.rnc.org/)
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### Author:  [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/76 "2005-09-23T21:50:13Z")
> [@uglybeech](#):
>
> It’s a _joke_, Commander Data. Logic won’t help you understand it. You need an emotion chip.
**You** need reading comprehension lessons.
> [@](#):
>
> If he were interested in calming the other team he could have gone a lot farther.
(He then goes on to explain all of the ways he could have “calmed the other team down”).
His sole argument against Fry’s rationale is that since Fry COULD have done more (but apparently chose not to), Fry’s stated reasoning was a lie.
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/77 "2005-09-23T22:18:36Z")
> [@uglybeech](#):
>
> \*Coach \* was funny?
It was on for 9 years. Somebody must have thought that it was.
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### Author:  [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/78 "2005-09-23T22:27:14Z")
**Zabali** --I cannot speak personally to doctors and loved ones being unable to access the parts of the hospital, but I (since I went to Iowa and did the nursing program there) do know that home game weekends DO create gridlock in the parking areas and pedesterian areas around the stadium (which is a stone’s throw from the hospital).
It’s not just the drunks–it’s the vomit slicks and the litter that sort of detract from one’s visit to the hospital grounds…
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### Author:  [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/79 "2005-09-23T22:29:53Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#):
>
> **Zabali** --I cannot speak personally to doctors and loved ones being unable to access the parts of the hospital, but I (since I went to Iowa and did the nursing program there) do know that home game weekends DO create gridlock in the parking areas and pedesterian areas around the stadium (which is a stone’s throw from the hospital).
>
> It’s not just the drunks–it’s the vomit slicks and the litter that sort of detract from one’s visit to the hospital grounds…
**THAT** IMO, is something that should have national attention in the hopes of bringing change, and it is worthy of griping about. The color of a particular locker room? Not so much.
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### Author:  [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pink-locker-rooms-and-a-knee-jerk-feminist/322982/80 "2005-09-23T22:34:36Z")
> [@beagledave](#):
>
> **You** need reading comprehension lessons.
>
> (He then goes on to explain all of the ways he could have “calmed the other team down”).
>
> His sole argument against Fry’s rationale is that since Fry COULD have done more (but apparently chose not to), Fry’s stated reasoning was a lie.
No trust me, that’s…not his main argument. The thrust of which probably eludes you since it requires prior experience with humans to grasp. His argument goes something like this: _everybody knows what the guy’s doing_.
So, while it’s frustrating to explain the complexities of human behavior to androids I’ll have another stab at it. Fry was making a sexist crack with the pink paint and his later “rationale” - appealing to the supposed calming effects of the color - was just another joke. He was grinning (internally) when he said it. Anybody would have been.
I’m beginning to think the guy actually is pretty funny.
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