# Pipeweed is NOT "weed" in LOTR! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 18, 2003, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700 "2003-12-18T05:19:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/21 "2003-12-18T15:09:36Z")
Perhaps if Tolkien had been more into the wacky tobacky, he would have given the Beatles permission to do [their version](http://edition.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/28/rings.beatles/index.html) of _LOTR_. Man, that would have ruled. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/22 "2003-12-18T15:30:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > I think it’s the use of the word “weed” to describe it that leads to the misapprehension, since “weed” is a common nickname for marijuana. “Is,” yes. Nowadays, “weed” is indeed a slang term for marijuana. But in the past, it also (and perhaps exclusively, though I can’t say for sure) meant “tobacco.” I seem to recall that even in _The Outsiders_, by S.E. Hinton (and didn’t we all read that when we were adolescents?), the characters use the word “weed” to refer to plain old tobacco cigarettes. Ponyboy and Johnny and Dallas and the others were always smoking those weeds, weren’t they? Somehow, I don’t think our parents and teachers would have encouraged us to read a book that so often referred to “weed” if it meant marijuana. _The Outsiders_ was published in 1967. Tolkien’s books were published years before that, so if a reference to “weed” meant “tobacco” as late as 1967, it stands to reason that it likely also did earlier in the twentieth century, when Tolkien was writing his trilogy. Tolkien was a pipe smoker himself, and his characters smoke pipes. I see no reason to believe that his characters were smoking anything other than Tolkien’s favourite blend of pipe tobacco–and that he did not intend his use of “weed” to mean anything other than tobacco. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/23 "2003-12-18T15:43:42Z")
I read somewhere (sorry, can’t find cite as it was many years ago) that Tolkien was horrified when hippies mistook his “pipeweed” references for pot. The old man was not amused in the least. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/24 "2003-12-18T18:23:12Z")
I don’t doubt that Tolkien did not intend drug references. However, I believe drug references by Jackson are quite intentional. (Not only with “weed,” but I thought I detected some sniggering fascination with mushroom references as well.) I disagree with **Fiver** ’s view that this shows a disrespect for the material. Nothing wrong, in my view, with a knowing wink to the hippies who embraced the books. Just a little good fun. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/25 "2003-12-18T21:33:29Z")
If it hadn’t been for the stoner hippies in the 60’s, these books wouldn’t have been nearly as popular as they were. I think Mr. Jackson’s weed subtext is quite intentional. I disagree with those that say he is being disrespectful to the material. It’s a freakin JOKE fer chrissakes. Lighten up. (or light up, if that’s your preference…) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/26 "2003-12-18T21:38:42Z")
I think people today tend to overlook the psychoactive properties of tobacco, especially when you don’t smoke all day every day and become strongly habituated. You can definately get stoned off of tobacco. And older writers don’t tend to have our current artificial distinction between “drugs” and “not-drugs” that we have. Sherlock Holmes for instance didn’t seem to see much difference between taking tobacco and taking cocaine. Nicotine, caffiene, and alcohol aren’t fundamentally different from cocaine, THC, or opium, they are all psychoactive drugs of various strengths. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/27 "2003-12-18T21:39:18Z")
Plus, how many people nowadays smoke tobacco in pipes? Not as many as there used to be. I think the snickering could be like how everyone jokes that Obi-Wan is a drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/28 "2003-12-18T22:07:47Z")
Another (superfluous) argument that pipeweed = tobacco is that “Old Toby” is a favoured blend. “Toby” has (unsurprisingly) a long assocation with tobacco. Apart from “Toby” being a diminutive form of the word “tobacco,” Cheapish cigars were called “Tobies,” (similar to the American “'Stogies”,) and the common denominator of traditional Toby Jugs was the three-cornered hat associated with colonial Virginia, and a pipe. Some may object that “Old Toby” refers to Tobold Hornblower, who introduced pipeweed to the Shire. Based on the order that the material is presented in, I think it’s nearly certain that Tolkien made up the history of pipeweed after naming Old Toby. Further, the men of Gondor called pipeweed _westmansweed_, since it was introduced from a far-off land west of Middle Earth, across the great sea. Sort of like… you know. Anyway, I don’t doubt that Jackson is being playful-- I just object to folks who try to put it across that Tolkien was a head. There will always be potheads who try to argue for decriminalization by resorting to dubious [appeals to authority/popularity](http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html), and I think it’s not only unecessary, but reflects poorly on cannabis users in general. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/29 "2003-12-18T22:26:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*That’s because you’re hopped up on goofballs! \*\* _Please_ tell me you meant this in a Joe Friday voice! Because that’s how I heard it in my head and I laughed at the image of Jack Webb confronting a bunch of elves and lecturing them on their wasteful and dissolute lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/30 "2003-12-18T22:51:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*I don’t doubt that Tolkien did not intend drug references. > > However, I believe drug references by Jackson are quite intentional. (Not only with “weed,” but I thought I detected some sniggering fascination with mushroom references as well.) > > I disagree with **Fiver** ’s view that this shows a disrespect for the material. Nothing wrong, in my view, with a knowing wink to the hippies who embraced the books. Just a little good fun. \*\* The mushroom thing is in the book, too. Hobbitts consider mushrooms a delicacy, and Frodo used to sneak from Buckland to Farmer Maggot’s farm to steal mushrooms. Think of how we prize shitakes and truffles, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ecks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ecks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ecks)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/31 "2003-12-18T23:12:46Z")
I seem to remember reading somewhere that pipeweed was called tobacco in early drafts, but later changed because it was too mundane- he wanted to be clear that middle-earth was not earth, and including something like tobacco may have confused that. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/32 "2003-12-18T23:49:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by paperbackwriter \* > \*\*The mushroom thing is in the book, too. Hobbitts consider mushrooms a delicacy, and Frodo used to sneak from Buckland to Farmer Maggot’s farm to steal mushrooms. Think of how we prize shitakes and truffles, after all. \*\* Yes, I know. But I think Jackson used the mushroom references as another playful wink to hippie fans. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/33 "2003-12-19T00:44:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny Ecks \* > \*\*I seem to remember reading somewhere that pipeweed was called tobacco in early drafts, but later changed because it was too mundane- he wanted to be clear that middle-earth was not earth, and including something like tobacco may have confused that. \*\* I do hope you’re not imputing to the professor an intention to have placed Middle Earth anywhere other than on the third rock from our sun. Middle-Earth _is_ Earth. It just happens to be in a prior geologic age. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/34 "2003-12-19T01:36:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BMalion \* > \*\*_Please_ tell me you meant this in a Joe Friday voice! Because that’s how I heard it in my head and I laughed at the image of Jack Webb confronting a bunch of elves and lecturing them on their wasteful and dissolute lifestyle. \*\* “Legolas served 30 years for Murder at the battle of Helm’s Deep…” BUM buh BUM BUM! ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/35 "2003-12-19T01:42:30Z")
I just had to post in this thread! That’s because my very first post ever on the old Arpanet was back about 1980, in a JRRT discussion group. I asked what the hell was in pipeweed anyway? I got replies chastising me for even bringing it up as it was certainly tobacco; mixed with replies that it was a wonderful blend of Acapulco Gold and Primo Cuban leaf. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/36 "2003-12-19T02:04:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kaylasdad99 \* > \*\*I do hope you’re not imputing to the professor an intention to have placed Middle Earth anywhere other than on the third rock from our sun. > > Middle-Earth _is_ Earth. It just happens to be in a prior geologic age. \*\* I’m in no position to argue this, so please don’t rag me on it, but I have heard both sides. Some people argue that Tolkien considered this to be simliar to, but completely seperate from, our Earth. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/37 "2003-12-19T04:29:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > **In the scene before the “long-expected party” in _Fellowship of the Ring,_ when Gandalf and Bilbo are having a smoke together, Bilbo even says “This is some good weed!” which is a phrase you could hear at any college party.** “Old Tobey, the finest weed in the South Farthing,” to be exact. Not exactly a party remark (unless you’re in Hobbiton). But I agree with several of the others: Tolkien meant tobacco. PJ…might have been winking. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/38 "2003-12-19T05:33:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AndrewT \* > \*\*Because the only weed that people know that gets smoked is marijuana. \*\* When I was in Junior High School, our chorus sang a song called “The Weed.” The words to this song were a 17th or 18th century poem. A 17th or 18th century poem. About. **Tobacco.** ---
**Author:** ![HoldenCaulfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/22d042/32.png) [@HoldenCaulfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoldenCaulfield)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/39 "2003-12-19T18:08:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rusalka \* > **Is it assuming too much that someone who goes to see a 4 hour movie at 12 midnight on a weeknight is a die hard fan?** Much too much to assume. In fact, my friend and I were first in line at 3:00 PM on the day before the premeire, and we waited all that time in the cold without food, blankets, chairs, or anything like that. Neither of us are very big LOTR fans. We both casually enjoy the movies, have never read the books, and wouldn’t mind not seeing the movies in the theaters. I didn’t see the second one in the theaters, and I didn’t see the first one until its second run. We waited in line for so long mainly because our friends are pretty big fans, and they had finals so they couldn’t wait in line. Also, it was a fun experience and I had never waited in line like that for a big movie premiere. And I got free dinner from my friends. Also I went crazy listening to the AMC Movie Tunes “radio station”… So, yeah, anyway, unforgettable experience and all that, but am not that big of a LOTR fan. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/40 "2003-12-19T18:40:34Z")
For those interested, they had a program in NPR yesterday about Tolkien. It is a very interesting program, and has Ursula Le Guin as a guest speaker! It goes into some detail about Tolkiens past and possible intentions. Here is the link- [http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1553102](http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1553102) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700.md?page=3)