# Pipeweed is NOT "weed" in LOTR! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 18, 2003, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700 "2003-12-18T05:19:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![c\_carol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@c\_carol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_carol)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/41 "2003-12-20T02:11:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Some people argue that Tolkien considered this to be simliar to, but completely seperate from, our Earth. Yes, but some people are wrong. [Cite](http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/104920). ---
**Author:** ![Ross\_Wittenham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ross\_Wittenham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross_Wittenham)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/42 "2014-02-25T21:58:38Z")
Damn, got here 10 years too late. Anyway, you are correct in thinking that Tolkein was talking about tobacco. All the same, LOTR is set in a prior age of our Earth. Tobacco wasn’t introduced to Europe until the middle ages, cannabis plants have been here from prehistory. If the wizards were smoking anything, it was more likely to have been pot. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/43 "2014-02-25T22:27:46Z")
Generally, how do people find these ten year old threads? Google search? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/44 "2014-02-25T22:30:29Z")
When you’re determined to pimp your blog, you make the effort to go to that 21th page of search results I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/45 "2014-02-25T22:47:17Z")
Pipeweed was, according to Tolkein, introduced to Middle Earth by the Numenoreans who brought it from over the sea. Does this remind you of anything? Like, [the demon weed of the Nicotiana family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tobacco)? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/46 "2014-02-25T22:51:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > When you’re determined to pimp your blog, you make the effort to go to that 21th page of search results I suppose. 21th? Is that anything like eleventy-first? ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/47 "2014-02-25T22:56:47Z")
Are there other tobaccos in the books? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/48 "2014-02-25T22:56:57Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > I am somewhat irritated by the snickering implication in the movie and from the audiences that the “pipeweed” in the Lord of the Rings is something other than tobacco. Tolkien makes it quite clear that pipeweed is tobacco, and even calls it “tobacco” at times. > > I saw the first showing of “Return of the King” - and again, the audience should have known better than snicker at the appearance of “pipeweed”. Is it assuming too much that someone who goes to see a 4 hour movie at 12 midnight on a weeknight is a die hard fan? > > I think that Tolkien would probably be dismayed if he knew that hobbits were smoking something other than his beloved tobacco. > > Why do people assume pipeweed is marijuana or something similar? Am I mistaken that many people are assuming this? Because the movie is not the book. Gandalf and Bilbo were clearly high, and Saruman also implies Gandalf has been smoking weed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/49 "2014-02-25T23:42:29Z")
And potatoes aren’t an Old World crop, either, but Tolkien put them in Middle Earth, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/50 "2014-02-25T23:47:14Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > 21th? Is that anything like eleventy-first? Well, how would you say it ? Real question, since I’m not a native English speaker. Twenty-first ? Twenty-oneth ? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/51 "2014-02-25T23:51:05Z")
Twenty-first, or 21st. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/52 "2014-02-26T00:06:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, how would you say it ? Real question, since I’m not a native English speaker. Twenty-first ? Twenty-oneth ? Yes, it is twenty-first or 21st. And Tolkien’s use of “eleventy-one” for 111 was a joke, as eleventy is not a real word in English. It’s something a child might say. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/53 "2014-02-26T00:14:41Z")
… well then that’s OBVIOUSLY what I meant, then. Irony, people ? GAWD. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/54 "2014-02-26T00:26:44Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Does this remind you of anything? Like, [the demon weed of the Nicotiana family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tobacco)? Hmm, from your link: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > At high doses, tobacco can become hallucinogenic; accordingly, Native Americans did not always use the drug recreationally. Instead, it was often consumed as an [entheogen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen); among some tribes, this was done only by experienced shamans or medicine men. And I can attest to the fact that quickly smoking several cigarettes in a row can indeed get you high, albeit briefly. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/55 "2014-02-26T00:38:09Z")
I don’t get it. Pipeweed is made up. It’s like Luke Skywalker drinking blue milk. It’s like Dune spice is what, oil? Pot? Something else? It just is what it is in the story. People (and they are all people, dwarves, Hobbits, elves and talking dragons included) in middle earth use lots of herbs for various purposes and they aren’t meant to be exactly the same herbs we’re familiar with. They can be whatever the author makes up. Tobacco and pot aren’t the only things that can be smoked, so why does pipeweed have to be either or? It’s just something you smoke and its effects are this this and this. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/56 "2014-02-26T00:53:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And potatoes aren’t an Old World crop, either, but Tolkien put them in Middle Earth, too. Bacon! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/57 "2014-02-26T01:16:40Z")
O slender as a speeding freak! Spaced-out groovy tripper! O mush-brained maid whose mind decays with every pill I slip her! O mind-blown fair farina-head, friend of birds and beetles! O skinny wraith whose fingernails are hypodermic needles! O tangled locks and painted bod! Pupils big as eggs! O flower-maid who never bathes or even shaves her legs! O softened mind that wanders wherever moon above leads! O how I dig thee, Hashberry, from nose to sleazy love-beads! ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/58 "2014-02-26T01:46:00Z")
As others have said, I’m sure Tolkien intended pipe-weed to be tobacco or something analogous… but he certainly did not consider it to be devoid of psychoactive properties. In the piece called “The Hunt for the Ring” in _Unfinished Tales,_ Tolkien goes into some detail regarding the use of pipe-weed by Gandalf and Saruman. At first, Saruman was contemptuous of Gandalf’s use of the weed. At the meeting of the White Council in 2851, Saruman spoke against Gandalf’s advice to attack Dol Guldur; Gandalf sat and smoked in silence, which irritated Saruman, and he later said, “I wonder a little that you should play with your toys of fire and smoke, while others are in earnest speech.” Gandalf replied, “You would not wonder, if you used this herb yourself. You might find that smoke blown out cleared your mind of shadows within. Anyway, it gives patience, to listen to error without anger.” As we know, Saruman later became a regular user, but he attempted to keep this fact secret from Gandalf. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/59 "2014-02-26T03:46:16Z")
Sorry, **Ross Wittenham** , we’re not here to drive traffic to your blog – I’ve removed that link. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700/60 "2014-02-26T16:52:16Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Pipeweed was, according to Tolkein, introduced to Middle Earth by the Numenoreans who brought it from over the sea. > > Does this remind you of anything? Like, [the demon weed of the Nicotiana family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tobacco)? Brought to Middle-Earth by Cirvaltaralë…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pipeweed-is-not-weed-in-lotr/219700.md?page=4)