# Pirates are dumb. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 11, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712 "2010-04-11T06:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/21 "2010-04-11T21:37:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Because that’s how we do things in America these days. In case you hadn’t noticed, there are millions of people in this very country today who are here illegally and who are nonetheless eligible to receive welfare, driver’s licenses and health care. The main difference is, they get to skip the prison part of the equation. And then there are the Gitmo prisoners who the administration is just faunching at the bit to bring here for trial, after which imprisonment or supposed exoneration they will be free to collect welfare and health care and become citizens themselves. > > It’s a brave new taxpayer-funded world we live in these days (well, fifty percent so, anyway) where everybody gets taken care of no matter what they’ve done by the fifty percent of our citizens who are still paying income tax. We’ve become “civilized” you see, which means we must walk around the world with “kick me” signs on our backs. In my opinion this is largely because the voting block who favors this taxpayer-funded civilization moral generosity isn’t the same one that is paying the taxes. If we had a flat-tax system I think we’d see a lot less generosity coming from the liberal contingent in this country; it’s easy to be “civilized” with other people’s money. [Urban.org.](http://www.urban.org/publications/900898.html) > [@](#): > > Undocumented men come to the United States almost exclusively to work. In 2003, over 90 percent of undocumented men worked—a rate higher than that for U.S. citizens or legal immigrants (Passel, Capps, and Fix 2004). Undocumented men are younger, less likely to be in school, and less likely to be retired than other men (Capps et al. 2003).\*\* Moreover, undocumented immigrants are ineligible for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits\*\* (Fix, Zimmermann, and Passel 2001). And wouldn’t going to prison be a bar to gaining citizenship? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/22 "2010-04-12T00:10:16Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [Urban.org.](http://www.urban.org/publications/900898.html) Maybe, but I’d point out that President Obama’s illegal alien aunt (Mrs. Zeituni) is a convicted felon. She has just ignored her fourth deportation order, and lives in a Boston, MA public housing project. She also collects welfare and food stamps, and has access to free health care. A Federal judge is “looking into” her case-meanwhile she has cost the taxpayers of the US hundreds of thousands of $. Part of the reason why I objet to bringing somali pirates into the USA for trial. As far as I know, she has never pais a dime in US taxes (except sales taxes on the stuff she buys (with her welfare checks).:smack: > [@](#): > > And wouldn’t going to prison be a bar to gaining citizenship? Auntie Zeituni isn’t about to return to a life of poverty in Africa. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/23 "2010-04-12T00:24:38Z")
According to [this](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-aunt-zeituni-onyango-fights-deportation/story?id=9741175), she is had applied for and was refused asylum. The illegal stay is in defiance of a deportation order which she is fighting. Usually this put such things “on hold” until the matter is resolved. I would presume that as she had applied for asylum, she is not undocumented and I would guess the rules for welfare are different for that situation. A worker who has crossed the border illegally is undocumented. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/24 "2010-04-12T00:40:01Z")
Aren’t most of those Somali pirates a bunch of teenagers? I know the ones killed last year (rescuing the captain) were pretty young. No education at all. Heck, some may not even have hair on their balls yet. 😉 Still, they’ve been a major pain in the ass for shipping. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/25 "2010-04-12T02:29:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And then there are the Gitmo prisoners who the administration is just faunching at the bit to bring here for trial Faunching? ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/26 "2010-04-12T02:50:04Z")
It is my understanding that, after being convicted of a serious crime and serving the sentence, all aliens, whether documented or not, will most likely be deported directly from prison instead of being released. Is there any cite that this is not the case? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/27 "2010-04-12T18:21:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The [rigging](http://www.ashland.navy.mil/Site%20Images/Ships%20Picture.jpg) looks strong enough. Hang 'em. Or load them on the helo, take them up a few thousand feet and see if they can fly. As God is my witness, I thought pirates could fly! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Nene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/da6949/32.png) [@El\_Nene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Nene)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/28 "2010-04-12T18:45:38Z")
> [@Waffle\_Decider](#): > > It is my understanding that, after being convicted of a serious crime and serving the sentence, all aliens, whether documented or not, will most likely be deported directly from prison instead of being released. Is there any cite that this is not the case? [Yes.](http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/07/17/us-mandatory-deportation-laws-harm-american-families) My brother was scared straight by the prospect of being sent back to El Salvador.😃 ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/29 "2010-04-12T19:28:18Z")
> [@Waffle\_Decider](#): > > It is my understanding that, after being convicted of a serious crime and serving the sentence, all aliens, whether documented or not, will most likely be deported directly from prison instead of being released. Is there any cite that this is not the case? You’re mostly correct. All felonies, and a number of misdemeanors, are considered aggravated felonies for the purposes of immigration. What that means is that a conviction for certain types of crimes makes an illegal citizen deportable. Convictions for these types of crimes can also make a documented worker inelligible to even apply for citizenship, permanent resident status, or even additional work visas, meaning that if they stayed, they would be here illegally. I have had a number of clients deported. In my experience, the criminals most likely to be deported are drug dealers, gang members, and people who hit their spouses. Even simple possession of a schedule I/II narcotic (cocaine, heroin, etc…) is sufficient for deportation. So no, **Starving Artist** , those pirates would not get out of jail, get on welfare, and then become citizens… if they were ever brought to trial in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/30 "2010-04-12T19:39:51Z")
I thought this was a thread about pirates in Somalia. And now y’all are arguing about illegal immigration? What the fucking fuck? Way to hijack a thread, **Starving Artist**. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/31 "2010-04-12T19:48:18Z")
From this [link:](http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/mk38_mod2_stabilized_minor_gun.html) [quoteThe Mk 38 Mod 2 main weapon is the M242 Bushmaster 25-mm Chain Gun, a proven NATO standard auto cannon with 2.5 km range and selectable rates of fire. The M242 Bushmaster fires all USN-approved 25-mm ammunition at up to 180 rounds per minute, with the Mk 38 Mod 2 providing 168 rounds on-mount. The Mk 38 Mod 2 system incorporates the service-proven Toplite electro-optical fire control system to optimize effective engagement of enemy targets during day, night and in all weather conditions. Toplite provides 4-axis gimbal stabilization, forward looking infra-red radar with three fields-of-view, a low contrast, low light level color television camera and an eye-safe laser range finder.[/quote] Better than a 1920’s style Death Ray! ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/32 "2010-04-12T19:51:25Z")
I bet they were kind of disappointed. They have a 180 rounds/p/m chain gun and the skiff was toast after 2 shots. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/33 "2010-04-12T20:07:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’m not surprised that they’d mistake an LSD for a cargo ship. But I still think that a frigate looks like a warship – even if it does only have a 3" gun. (And other things, but I assume pirates would be looking for guns.) And a Sea Hawk aft might give a clue, too. Frankly, I don’t think that even an LSD looks much like a cargo ship. This is a standard container ship: [File:Resim 057.jpg - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Resim_057.jpg) That’s the sort of thing that smart pirates attack - huge ship, small crew, and you can actually climb on, steal things, and leave without anyone being the wiser with a bit of luck. Or, hijack it easily enough - small crew, remember. And a ship like that has a very, very different profile from any warship. Frankly, I’d think a smart pirate would just assume that any ship that he _can’t_ immediately identify as a container ship or a cruise ship is a warship, and act accordingly. Also - I kind of wish we still made patrol boats. It sounds like we’re using a fairly large ship for something very different from its intended purpose, just because we don’t have any good _small_ platforms that can carry the (really minimal) arms needed to engage and embarass pirates. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/34 "2010-04-12T20:10:28Z")
I long for the simple days in which Barack Obama was accused of being naive. After being called wet behind the ears, then he wasn’t an American. Then he became a socialist. Then a communist. Then the Joker. Although I can’t say for sure what he’s on about, it seems that **ralph124c** is calling Obama a crypto-pirate. That’s just great. I can’t wait to see what the right wing is going to be saying about him in 2016 when he’s wrapping up his second term. Could he be a secret alien disguised as a human, a la “V”? We don’t have any proof that Obama ISN’T a a human-eating lizard… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/35 "2010-04-12T20:13:06Z")
Can we get back to talking about pirates and things that go boom when you shoot them at pirates? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/36 "2010-04-12T20:16:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > From this [link:](http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/mk38_mod2_stabilized_minor_gun.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > The Mk 38 Mod 2 main weapon is the M242 Bushmaster 25-mm Chain Gun, a proven NATO standard auto cannon with 2.5 km range and selectable rates of fire. The M242 Bushmaster fires all USN-approved 25-mm ammunition at up to 180 rounds per minute, with the Mk 38 Mod 2 providing 168 rounds on-mount. > > > > The Mk 38 Mod 2 system incorporates the service-proven Toplite electro-optical fire control system to optimize effective engagement of enemy targets during day, night and in all weather conditions. Toplite provides 4-axis gimbal stabilization, forward looking infra-red radar with three fields-of-view, a low contrast, low light level color television camera **and an eye-safe laser range finder.** > > Better than a 1920’s style Death Ray! (my bolding). Yeah, cause you certainly don’t want to put someone’s eye out before you launch some 25mm downrange at them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/37 "2010-04-12T20:23:28Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > (my bolding). Yeah, cause you certainly don’t want to put someone’s eye out before you launch some 25mm downrange at them. Well, I guess you might want to get a firing solution before you’ve actually made the decision to ruin somebody’s day for certain. A range-finder that won’t blind anyone is useful for that. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/38 "2010-04-12T20:26:07Z")
Arrrrr not! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/39 "2010-04-12T20:32:18Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Also - I kind of wish we still made patrol boats. It sounds like we’re using a fairly large ship for something very different from its intended purpose, just because we don’t have any good _small_ platforms that can carry the (really minimal) arms needed to engage and embarass pirates. Shouldn’t be all that hard to do. We have plenty of confiscated drug boats. A little re-fitting, a new paint job, and the Navy gets some patrol boats that can out-run anything they can’t out-fight. Bolt a Bushmaster onto a Scarab, take pictures, post them on the net and watch Naval recruitment sky-rocket! ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712/40 "2010-04-13T01:48:26Z")
The REAL weapon aboard the LSD is the US Marine Detachment aboard, roughly 400 infantry grunts who don’t like being shot at very much. I’m sure they didn’t keep the captured Somalis in the Marine’s berthing area. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-are-dumb/535712.md?page=3)