# Pirates Flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 19, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108 "2003-11-19T15:13:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sergio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Sergio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sergio)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108/1 "2003-11-19T15:13:31Z")
In his column [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1\_292.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_292.html) Cecil says the bones under the skull are femurs. I have allways seen them cited as tibias. Tibia is one of the leg bones, while femor is the tigh bone as Cecil mentions. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108/2 "2003-11-19T16:47:43Z")
Not to hijack, but when reading this Cecil column, I was wondering why Cecil didn’t mention that “roger” is British slang for shagging, rooting, the ol’ in-out, making the beast with two backs, slap and tickle, copulation, screwing, fornicating, makin’ whoopie, etc. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108/3 "2003-11-19T17:00:43Z")
Because (as far as I can see) it’s irrelevant? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108/4 "2003-11-20T04:44:18Z")
Au contrare. Check out [http://www.piratesinfo.com/detail/detail.php?article\_id=68](http://www.piratesinfo.com/detail/detail.php?article_id=68) : “One of the characteristics of pirates was their brutal treatment of female prisoners, who commonly were ‘rogered at the rail’ by one and all and then thrown overboard, to fend for themselves”. ---
**Author:** ![Harriswest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/43a26b/32.png) [@Harriswest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriswest)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108/5 "2003-11-21T01:29:22Z")
A few hundred years ago, “Jolly” referred to bravery not a sanguine attitude. Calling someone a “jolly fellow” meant that you thought he was stouthearted and did not quail in the face of risk. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108/6 "2003-11-21T02:18:01Z")
Although this sense existed for “jolly” in period, it was not the original sense of the word, and was not at any time the only or primary sense. And although “roger” = “shag” is attested in period, it appears to have been an extension from “roger” = “prick”, also in period. And neither the _“joli rouge”_ nor the skull-and-crossbones exhibits any remarkable similitude to or suggestion of a _membrum viri._ ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108/7 "2003-11-21T04:50:22Z")
**AndrewT**. You DO realize that the story told on the site to which you link was pure crap, don’t you? All you have to do is submit an article to that website, and they’ll publish it. No scholarly basis for the assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-flag/214108/8 "2003-11-27T23:53:07Z")
Captain Jack Broome, RN, DSC, in his excellent book on naval flag and signal history, _Make a Signal_ (Putnam, 1955), has a short segment on the history of piracy and the Jolly Roger. He says: > [@](#): > > Pirate Captain Charles Vane “fell upon a ship which 'twas expected would have struck as soon as our black colours were hoisted: but instead of that she dischar’d a Broadside and hoisted Colours, which shewed her to be a French Man of War.” (Vane floreat c. 1718) Broome goes on to say: > [@](#): > > Captain Bartho Roberts, for example, had a flag “with his own figure portayed standing upon two skulls and under them the letters ABH and AMH, signifying A BARBADIAN’s HEAD and A MARTINICIAN’S HEAD.” The flag which the _Swallow_ captured had “the figure of a skeleton upon it, and and a man portrayed with a flaming sword in his hand”…The nearest approach to the design we know today belonged to Pirate Chief Worley, who had “a Black Ensign with a white Death’s Head in the middle of it,” but no cross bones. When those thigh bones were added is not clear. (Ellipses mine). Worley died 1718.