# Pirates of the Caribbean: When Does it Take Place? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128 "2006-06-09T22:12:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/21 "2006-06-14T08:20:32Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] I’m pretty sure there’s an unwritten rule about not using the word “anal” in reference to a sea epic. Even though the crew may indeed have been extremely fastidious about their costumes, it’s really not appropriate to describe them as anal seamen. [/quote] Dear sir, what about all those poor rear admirals? \*\*Lissla Lissar \*\* and **Miss Purl McKnittington** : I’m deeply impressed by your insight into the costuming of this era. I live in the Tampa Bay area, and as you may know, Tampa is all about the pirates. There’s just so much piracy around, I can’t even begin to tell you. However, I have an acutely embarrassing confession to make: _I do not own a pirate costume_. It is shameful, I know. I walk down the street and people are all like, “Dude! Arrr! Where’s your pirate costume?” and then they laugh and sic their parrots on me. So I am seriously considering how best to assemble a properly authentic pirate costume. But I would like to do it right, of course, lest I be mocked for my anachronistic gussets or some such. Are there reference works and other sources that you could recommend to me for this purpose, or does this sort of knowledge simply have to be acquired via years of study? [/QUOTE] I actually don’t have more than a passing familiarity with the time period. My favorite period is the sixteenth century, followed by Victorian, and both are much different fashion-wise from pirate-wear, which is roughly late seventeenth century. Even then, because I’m a delicate flower, I know more about women’s clothes. I do know, however, unless you’re a proficient tailor, you’re going to have to shell out beaucoup dollars to purchase an accurate ensemble. Probably no less than $400 and that would be on the cheap side. My advice to you, though, is to take a three-prong attack to the problem. The first two steps are research. The third is also sort of research, but more action-oriented. The steps are: **1) Discover what look you want** This is actually the first step for any costuming project. I usually start with a Google search, honestly, and see what sources other people have used or if I can compile some source images. These can be anything that catches your eye as to being what you _want_ in a look; at this stage it doesn’t necessarily need to be accurate. Once you accrue more knowledge of the era, you’ll be able to pick out what is accurate in your images and what isn’t. That said, the best source images and texts are primary ones, that is, images and texts that came from the period, produced by people who actually lived in it. [There’s a nice explanation of the different types of sources here](http://www.library.jcu.edu.au/LibraryGuides/primsrcs.shtml). And [here](http://modehistorique.com/elizabethan/holbein.html) is a nice discussion on using art for costume research. It’s geared toward the sixteenth century, but it has some nice insights for any era. Some examples of good source images for pirates would be portraits of sailors in general. Also useful This is also where you take the opportunity to learn a little bit about the world this character lived in. You don’t necessarily need to form a persona, but it’s good to learn about the social status and life of the sort of person who would wear the costume you’re trying to make. For example, you might discover that pirates weren’t that far separated from their law-abiding counterparts on merchant ships. (This is true. Some even switched back and forth between the two, one journey with a pirate captain and the next with some due hauling rum.) Some questions to ask yourself at this step are: **2) Analyze the research** And gussets generally are in places that only someone you knew _very_ well would be seeing. Like the armpit of your shirt and the crotch of your smallclothes and pantaloons. So no worries there! ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/22 "2006-06-14T08:21:52Z")
Sweet merciful crap on a cracker! I hate this laptop. That was not ready at all. I’ll return [del]in my own sweet time[/del] shortly with something that’s actually coherent. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/23 "2006-06-14T09:19:06Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] I’m pretty sure there’s an unwritten rule about not using the word “anal” in reference to a sea epic. Even though the crew may indeed have been extremely fastidious about their costumes, it’s really not appropriate to describe them as anal seamen. [/quote] My dear sir, what about those poor rear admirals? [QUOTE=Terrifel] \*\*Lissla Lissar \*\* and **Miss Purl McKnittington** : I’m deeply impressed by your insight into the costuming of this era. I live in the Tampa Bay area, and as you may know, Tampa is all about the pirates. There’s just so much piracy around, I can’t even begin to tell you. However, I have an acutely embarrassing confession to make: _I do not own a pirate costume_. It is shameful, I know. I walk down the street and people are all like, “Dude! Arrr! Where’s your pirate costume?” and then they laugh and sic their parrots on me. So I am seriously considering how best to assemble a properly authentic pirate costume. But I would like to do it right, of course, lest I be mocked for my anachronistic gussets or some such. Are there reference works and other sources that you could recommend to me for this purpose, or does this sort of knowledge simply have to be acquired via years of study? [/QUOTE] I actually don’t have more than a passing familiarity with the time period. My favorite period is the sixteenth century, followed by Victorian, and both are much different fashion-wise from pirate-wear, which is roughly late seventeenth century. Even then, because I’m a delicate flower, I know more about women’s clothes. I do know, however, unless you’re a proficient tailor, you’re going to have to shell out beaucoup dollars to purchase an accurate ensemble. Probably no less than $400 and that would be on the cheap side. It is completely possible to amass the information you need to make a costume, in a remarkably short period of time. My advice to you, though, is to take a three-prong attack to the problem. The first two steps are research. The third is also sort of research, but more action-oriented. I’m sorry if this is a little muddled, but I generally don’t do everything in order because I am not that organized. The steps are: **1) Discover what look you want** This is actually the first step for any costuming project. I usually start with a Google search, honestly, and see what sources other people have used or if I can compile some source images. These can be anything that catches your eye as to being what you want in a look; at this stage it doesn’t necessarily need to be accurate. Once you accrue more knowledge of the era, you’ll be able to pick out what is accurate in your images and what isn’t. That said, the best source images and texts are primary ones, that is, images and texts that came from the period, produced by people who actually lived in it. There’s a nice explanation of the different types of sources [here](http://www.library.jcu.edu.au/LibraryGuides/primsrcs.shtml). And [here](http://modehistorique.com/elizabethan/holbein.html) is a nice discussion on using art for costume research. It’s geared toward the sixteenth century, but it has some nice insights for any era. Some examples of good source images for pirates would be portraits of sailors in general. This is also where you take the opportunity to learn a little bit about the world this character lived in. You don’t necessarily need to form a persona, but it’s good to learn about the social status and life of the sort of person who would wear the costume you’re trying to make. For example, you might discover that pirates weren’t that far separated from their law-abiding counterparts on merchant ships. (This is true. Some even switched back and forth between the two, one journey with a pirate captain and the next with some dude hauling rum.) Hit up your local university library. Look in books outside of costume history and explore the social history, domestic life, etc. You might be surprised by what you discover about clothing in these books, but you’ll also understand more about how and why these clothes were made and worn. A good source for information at this point are serious re-enactors. I enjoy [Reconstructing History](http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/), whose pattern line I’ve heard very good things about and whose research and work I respect deeply. [Kipar.org](http://www.kipar.org/piratical-resources/index.html) also generally does excellent research and has wonderful examples, but if I recall correctly, there’s a slight female prejudice there. (Er, maybe not, looking at the PotC article. She does a smashing job running down the costuming in that movie and giving advice. She ends up dating it slightly earlier than we have, to the beginning of the eighteenth century.) [La Couturiere Parisienne](http://www.marquise.de/) has a wide array of portraits and info about clothing. Some questions to ask yourself at this step are: What look do I want to achieve? How historically accurate is this look? Is it appropriate for the character I want to portray? Do I want to be someone who is large and in charge, or do I want to be a lowly sailor? What year am I drawn to? **2) Analyze the research** Oh, you say, that’s easy! Actually, this is the hard part for me. This is where I have to decide whether it really is appropriate for the character I want to create to wear mad bling or if I should lay off putting a metric ton of pearls on my dress. This is also where you make a list of what items of clothing, accessories, and other sundries you need. Questions to ask: What is appropriate for me to wear? What is daily life like for the character I’m drawn to? What items of clothing would I wear at a bare minimum? Would it be appropriate for me to appear in only a shirt and a pair of pantaloons or would I need more clothing? Would I wear a hat? How is the clothing un/suited to life I lead? **3) Start pricing your options, AKA Big Decision Time** This step is where you decide whether you can feasible make all this yourself or if you’re willing to shell out the money to purchase the garments or have someone make them for you. A lot of people do a combination of the two and purchase some items while making others. For example, most costumers aren’t very good cobblers, so they buy their shoes and make the rest. Or they may make just their underwear (that’s generally easy) and buy the more tailored outer items—coat, pantaloons, etc. If you’re going to hire someone to make something for you, _ask for references_. Ask to see a portfolio of past work. There are seriously disreputable and just plain bad tailors/seamstresses out there. Don’t be afraid to report bad experiences to the Better Business Bureau in your area. Questions to ask here: What, exactly, is my budget? What am I able to make myself? What is outside my skillset? Do I have time to make anything at all? What will I have to buy? How dedicated to historical accuracy am I? Is buying all the fabric and associated accoutrements and then building the costume worth the money and effort? Would I be more willing to pay to have it made? Are there acceptable modern items that could do in a pinch, e.g. wearing dance tights for stockings instead of knitting your own or purchasing period ones? Is there anything that I’m willing to sacrifice? \ If the look you want is more Francis Drake (sixteenth century) than William Kidd (seventeenth century) then I can help you more than just the blather I’ve given you. I would recommend [Janet Arnold](http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=br_ss_hs/102-0279237-1014521?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dblended&keywords=janet+arnold) for _any_ time period. She was the queen of extant clothing. Her Patterns of Fashion books are especially wonderful, as they offer patterns take from extant clothing and drawn to scale. If you end up doing sixteenth century, then [The Tudor Tailor](http://www.tudortailor.com/) is amazing. [Ninya Mikhaila](http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/costumegallery.html) is a simply fantastic historical costumer. Possibly the best there is. [Margo Anderson](http://www.margospatterns.com/) has a lovely line of patterns, as well. Pricey, but totally worth it. And gussets generally are in places that only someone you knew very well would be seeing closely enough to critique. Like the armpit of your shirt and the crotch of your smallclothes (boxer shorts, basically) and pantaloons. So no worries there! ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/24 "2006-06-14T15:05:57Z")
I bow to the excellence of **Miss Pearl’s** writing and research. Oh, dear. Now I want a copy of _The Tudor Tailor_, and I don’t even like Tudor that much! ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/25 "2006-06-14T20:34:28Z")
**Miss Purl McKnittington** : Thank you very very much for your extremely informative and helpful reply. You’ve given me a lot to think about, and some new books to track down, which is never a bad thing. $400 eh? On my budget it’s not something that I’d be able to put together all at once, but at least it gives me a goal to work toward anyway. No wonder pirates needed all that gold. I’d sort of been leaning toward a larger-than-life type swashbuckler’s getup, with the lace, cutlass, brace of pistols, etc; an outfit made up largely of plundered finery, albeit faded and weatherstained from long wear. But now I’m having second thoughts, as I doubt I have the body type to carry it off. I’d probably better focus on a pirate ensemble better suited to weedy guys. Although I fear this means that I’ll have to learn how to play a hornpipe or concertina or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/26 "2006-06-14T20:41:00Z")
‘Swashbuckling’ to me always says 17th century, which does look good on skinny guys. The Cavalier look- more Barbossa than Jack. And you get to wear a nifty hat. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/27 "2006-06-15T03:55:44Z")
Yep, yep. Ditto **Lissla Lissar**. Something like this [get-up](http://www.authenticwardrobe.com/Pirate/pirate.html), I suppose? You’ll notice that the whole outfit is available for $1300 . . . really. That much. Extremely high quality, though. I meant it when I said $400 was cheap. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/28 "2006-06-15T08:38:57Z")
[QUOTE=Miss Purl McKnittington] I actually don’t have more than a passing familiarity with the time period. My favorite period is the sixteenth century [/QUOTE] [Hijack] Tudor, Elizabethan, Flemish or Italian? Somehow, I see you as an Elizabethan girl, but I’ve been wrong before. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128/29 "2006-06-15T17:58:27Z")
You’re very astute, \*_MrDibble_. I love English middle class Elizabethan. The nobility can get a bit nauseauting at times, with all the bling. I also have a thing for Venetian dress of the later 16th century. Very elegant and extremely flirty and daring for being draped in ten yards of fabric. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pirates-of-the-caribbean-when-does-it-take-place/360128.md?page=1)