# Piss on the floor-the owner gets arrested:the inmates have overtaken the asylum **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377 "2004-09-06T19:55:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/1 "2004-09-06T19:55:36Z")
[This story assaults my sensibilities.](http://http://www.columbiatribune.com/2004/Sep/20040905Feat003.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/2 "2004-09-06T19:56:13Z")
Link doesn’t work for me. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/3 "2004-09-06T19:58:07Z")
Fixed [link](http://www.columbiatribune.com/2004/Sep/20040905Feat003.asp). ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/4 "2004-09-06T19:59:42Z")
[http://www.columbiatribune.com/2004/Sep/20040905Feat003.asp](http://www.columbiatribune.com/2004/Sep/20040905Feat003.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/5 "2004-09-06T20:07:19Z")
Eh? The owner called the cops, and then assaulted the guy while the cops were there. He deserves a slap on the wrist… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/6 "2004-09-06T20:14:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Eh? The owner called the cops, and then assaulted the guy while the cops were there. He deserves a slap on the wrist… How about this? The bum was attempting to sit on a chair, which would have contaiminated the chair. I think this might fall under the umbrella of “distruction of property”. At least, he was intentionally trying to continue spreading urine around; which was why the cops were called in the first place. A person is entitled to use reasonable force is necessary to protect himself. Some (most?) places allow some kind of reasonable force to protect property from someone who is damaging or about to damage it. Think of it this way: What if the guy was an arsonist, and he attempted to light a molotov coctail? Would the owner be justified in stopping him, if the police didn’t? It seems to me that preventing someone from continuing to damage your property – even with a (probably innocuous) biological agent – is justified. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/7 "2004-09-06T20:15:11Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Eh? The owner called the cops, and then assaulted the guy while the cops were there. He deserves a slap on the wrist… I have to agree, here. The cops can’t let one person assault another in their presence. They were right to pounce, stopping the conflict with overwhelming force before something really bad could happen, i.e. the homeless guy bites the store owner, or pulls a weapon, or otherwise raises the stakes and gets ambulances involved. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/8 "2004-09-06T20:33:49Z")
The cafe owner should have urinated on himself, then given the cops a big hug. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/9 "2004-09-06T20:34:46Z")
Years ago when I worked as a bouncer in a bar I escorted many a drunk asshole outside by steering them with their shoulders. If they had been pissing on the floor the treatment would not have been as nice. I harldy think this qualifies as assault. The police should have taken over as soon as the owner notified the pisser the first time that he was unwelcome in the establishment, and therefore trespassing. Instead, after three such notices he was allowed to attempt to sit in a chair. Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/10 "2004-09-06T21:14:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Think of it this way: What if the guy was an arsonist, and he attempted to light a molotov coctail? Would the owner be justified in stopping him, if the police didn’t? I refuse to think of it that way because someone throwing a molotov cocktail is a fundamentally different situation: it would have caused severe damage to the property and it would have endangered human life to a degree far beyond what the homeless man did in this situation. > [@](#): > > It seems to me that preventing someone from continuing to damage your property – even with a (probably innocuous) biological agent – is justified. I don’t necessarily disagree in the general case, but when the cops showed up he should have let them handle the situation. That’s their job. And it appears that they did, in fact, do their job because the guy who urinated was arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/11 "2004-09-06T21:18:00Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Eh? The owner called the cops, and then assaulted the guy while the cops were there. He deserves a slap on the wrist… Assaulted? Bullshit. He did the ethical equivalent of taking out the trash. The assault was in his arrest. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/12 "2004-09-06T21:22:37Z")
I suspect the verbal confrontation between the owner and the pissed vagrant had the police in “anticipate violence” mode, and when the owner tripped and grabbed the police officer’s shirt the cop thought the owner was becoming assaultive. The annoying part is that cops, once having done something like that, are rarely going to say, “Sorry, man, I thought you were getting hostile so I slammed your face into the wall”; they’re instead going to insist that the person so slammed was indeed being violent and they are going to charge him with something. Looks to me like they went with something specifically less onerous than assaulting a PO, though, so that’s as close to an apology as he’s likely to get. He should’ve waited for the cops to get their fill of the pissed (in both senses) guy and haul him out of there, even if he did have to lose a chair in the bargain. You don’t start defending your rights physically with the cops right there, they tend to believe that once they are on their scene, legitimate physical violence belongs to them and them alone. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/13 "2004-09-06T21:56:42Z")
The guy called the cops and then proceeded to assault both the vagrant and the police and you wonder why the police took action? Once the police arrived, he should have just left them do their business. He could have noted his concerns about the urine if damaged property was a worry. It does not help the situation by becoming more physical. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/14 "2004-09-06T22:49:17Z")
or he could simply have called the police, waited for them to take the guy away, and then taken the chair out back and cleaned it. those of you talking about biological agents are really taking it too far. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/15 "2004-09-06T22:58:25Z")
The inmates have overtaken the asylum? I wasn’t aware they were racing. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/16 "2004-09-06T23:00:55Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > The guy called the cops and then proceeded to assault both the vagrant and the police and you wonder why the police took action? Once the police arrived, he should have just left them do their business. He could have noted his concerns about the urine if damaged property was a worry. It does not help the situation by becoming more physical. Did you read the story? The guy pissed all over his floor! And after he had been helpful to the beggars at his door for years. It was not an assault. He was not attacking the guy. The creep was a trespasser and he was being escorted by from the premises. And he didn’t assault the cop, he stumbled into him. What does noting his concerns do? What should he say to his patrons who object to people pissing all over the joint? “I’ve noted my concerns”? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/17 "2004-09-06T23:46:36Z")
Assault the police? What kind of fucking moron thinks that a guy who’s just tripped over a 50 lb sack of coffee and is attempting not to end up doing a faceplant into the floor is commiting assault if he reaches out to steady himself on the nearest object? As for the vagrant, the police should’ve done their job and removed the trespasser as soon as the shop owner said that he was not welcome there. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Bubbington-Smythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@Lord\_Bubbington-Smythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Bubbington-Smythe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/18 "2004-09-06T23:59:28Z")
From the linky : > [@](#): > > " **I asked him three times, in front of the police** : ‘Sir, you’re not invited to sit in my establishment. Please leave,’ " DuCharme says. The man refused and tried to sit down. DuCharme says that at this point he grabbed the man by the shoulders and tried to force him out of the store. How long would the police not have to act before it was reasonable for him to try and move the guy? Until the piss was totally soaked into the chair and ruined it? Until he’d got them some cofeee and doughnuts? All they’ve done is made sure that he won’t call them for assistance again. Maybe next time the homelss guy will have a blade. Sure, it won’t be directly their fault if something goes wrong, but they certainly will have contributed to the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/19 "2004-09-07T00:19:42Z")
Given the curious behavior of the cops – going for the business owner instead of the bum … er, homeless person … I’d say that SOMEBODY wasn’t making his payoffs to Paddy. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/20 "2004-09-07T00:30:46Z")
Meh. Its an opinion piece. Too often the authors are prone to push one side or the other, I bet you if a police spokesman had an opportunity to talk, we’d get a completely different story. :: waits for both sides :: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377.md?page=2)