# Piss on the floor-the owner gets arrested:the inmates have overtaken the asylum **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377 "2004-09-06T19:55:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/101 "2004-09-08T19:19:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Singling out the owner as an exacerbator while thugs hang around outside his door, and one inside has ruined his furniture and his business for the day is the most myopic extreme-leftist hand-wringing mea-culpa oh-my-god-we’re-all-to-blame hooey I have ever heard. Conversely, not holding an individual culpable for his actions is the most myopic, extreme-leftist, society-made-him-do-it, there-were-extenuating-circumstances, it-might-hurt-his-self-esteem, is-anyone-really-to-blame dreck I have ever heard. The vagrant fucked up and was arrested. The owner fucked up and was arrested. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/102 "2004-09-08T20:13:08Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Homeless man? Why the hell do you describe him as “homeless man”. Why not “man with nose”? Or “American man”? Or “drunk son of a bitch blithering wanker who pulls out his dick and sprays piss all over the place man”? The cops should not be intervening; they should be assisting. The owner grabs under the arms, the cops each grab a leg. Mmm, chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/103 "2004-09-08T21:51:38Z")
That was pretty funny, Lissener! 😃 > [@JKilez](#): > > The vagrant fucked up and was arrested. > The owner fucked up and was arrested. What the…!? In what way did the owner fuck up? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/104 "2004-09-08T23:34:19Z")
If anyone is keeping score, I posted #94 about 3 hours _after_ and _in response_ \*to \*post #95. (Cue Twilight Zone music) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/105 "2004-09-08T23:55:58Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Assault the police? What kind of fucking moron thinks that a guy who’s just tripped over a 50 lb sack of coffee and is attempting not to end up doing a faceplant into the floor is commiting assault if he reaches out to steady himself on the nearest object? > > . That’s _his_ story. I imagine the police have a different one. I have my doubts as to his part of the story around here. Yes, the vagrant should have beem escorted out, yes, the guy wasn’t all that wrong to try and stop the vagrant, but he assaulted a police officer- or so they say. We’ll have to see, won’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/106 "2004-09-09T08:02:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s _his_ story. I imagine the police have a different one. I have my doubts as to his part of the story around here. > > Yes, the vagrant should have beem escorted out, yes, the guy wasn’t all that wrong to try and stop the vagrant, **but he assaulted a police officer- or so they say**. We’ll have to see, won’t we? (Bolding mine) He wasn’t charged with assaulting a police officer. Nowhere in the article is it suggested he assaulted a police officer. Where are you getting this? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/107 "2004-09-09T14:10:22Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > If anyone is keeping score, I posted #94 about 3 hours _after_ and _in response_ \*to \*post #95. (Cue Twilight Zone music) Yea, that confused the hell out of me (admittedly an easy thing to do). ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/108 "2004-09-09T14:19:52Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > Where in the article (not in your imagination, but in the article)does it state that the owner took action **in defiance** of the cop’s direction? Well, it seems pretty fucking clear to me, despite the oh-so-careful wording of the article: “The officers didn’t like it and got in the way.” What don’t you understand? The officers objected to his actions and tried to intervene by placing themselves between the homeless guy and the owner. Then he grabbed the cop. > [@](#): > > I’ll keep saying this until you get it. The pisser had been asked three times to leave. He was in the wrong for not complying with those requests. Yes, he was. The homeless guy sure looks like an asshole to me. > [@](#): > > After each of these requests it was the duty of the police to escort him out. Since when? They were investigating an incident in which the homeless man was involved. They needed him to stick around. Perhaps if they’d put him out per the owners request, he would have fled. No, it’s better to keep an eye on him. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, the owner did nothing until the pisser tried to sit down on his furniture. The owner then grabbed him so he could escort him outside. Which, if the cops weren’t doing themselves, they apparently didn’t want done. The owner called the cops. He turned the situation over to them. > [@](#): > > There is no indication that things were not happening fast enough. The owner was trying to prevent further contamination to his place of business. That’s as weak an excuse as, “I tripped.” He was pissed and he wanted the guy out. I doubt if contamination was primary in his mind. > [@](#): > > This is the sequence of events. Pisser attempts to sit down. Owner grabs pisser. Cops intervene. Contrast this with your version. Cops intervene. Owner grabs pisser. Does this even make sense, or is your imagination playing tricks on you again? Man, you are really having trouble with his. Owner grabs pisser, cops intervene _apparently because the owner wasn’t stopping when they moved to stop him._ As the cop said, “Mr. DuCharme was arrested because he decided to deal with the situation himself and physically remove the transient.” The cops tried to stop him from doing so, i.e “getting in the way.” > [@](#): > > Some officers are stupid and/or evil. Are you suggestiong that all cops are smart and all cops are good? Are you suggesting that police never make wrongful arrests? Are you suggesting that cops never use excessive force? Why has your imagination, so wondrously fertile before, abandoned you now? There was no mention of an on-going investigation in the article, leading me to believe that it’s pretty cut-and-dried that the owner _did something worth being arrested for!_ I know it’s much more fun to imagine these mean, cold-hearted cops pushing around the innocent-as-a-lamb owner of a coffee shop in favor of a scum-of-the-earth pissy homeless man, but I’d lay _money_ that this isn’t the case. Note that the owner himself does not accuse the police of innappropriate behavior. > [@](#): > > If extreme provocation is not an excuse for loss of temper then what, praytell, is? Legally? Nothing. As my momma always said, “Two wrongs don’t make a right.” > [@](#): > > Now this is just juvenile. I don’t know why but I expected better of you. Oh, God! I am **so** sorry to have dissapointed you! I’ll try better in the future to live up to your expectations because your positive opinion of me means **so much.** > [@](#): > > Let me give you a hint. If the officers had not been wearing pants it would have been REALLY BIG NEWS. Why? Because one almost never sees police naked from the waist down. And I only say almost because I am suspicious of propsitions that include the word “never.” Uhm, actually the reporter decides what goes in the article and what doesn’t. If he decided not to mention the fact that the officers weren’t wearing pants, guess what? You never would have heard about it! Just like he glosses over the owner’s disobedience to the authorities with the insanely stupid statement that “the cops didn’t like it and got in the way.” > [@](#): > > If one is constrained, as I am, by the facts as presented in the article, the assumption is that the cops intervened as soon as the owner put his hands on the pisser. It may come as a surprise to you, but it seems that the reporter might have chosen to leave out some facts in this article! It may even be that the article is slanted and biased! God almighty, imagine that! > [@](#): > > This does not make them right. In fact, if I squint my eyes and hold my mouth just right I can imagine them being wrong. Of course. It’s much more fun to be outraged. Get a subscription to _Reader’s Digest_ and you can have this sort of fun every month! > [@](#): > > Show me where I asserted that customers could “smell piss all over the restaurant”, or retract the statement please. Sorry, it wasn’t you. It was Catsix. I apologize for the mixup. > [@](#): > > It was expressly stated in the article that customers were “coming and going”. I used my imagination to interpret that as coming into the establishment. But you can’t do that! You nailed me for the wild assumption that the cops might have said something along the lines of “Hey! Stop! Let him go!” when he grabbed the homeless guy. We’re not allowed to make resonable guesses. The aticle’s statement that the homeless men made it difficult for customers to come and go is earlier in time than the incident in question. For all you know, the coffee shop had been empty for hours. (Actually, I think the author of the article might have made a point to mention any customers present during the altercation, because it raises the outrage factor to imagine a family with kids watching cops slamming a guy into a counter. I’m using my _imaginantion_ to guess that there weren’t.) > [@Liberal](#): > > Homeless man? Why the hell do you describe him as “homeless man”. Why not “man with nose”? Or “American man”? Or “drunk son of a bitch blithering wanker who pulls out his dick and sprays piss all over the place man”? I guess I don’t see why you have a problem with me calling him that, though I imagine I know why: you’re assuming that I’m a rabid, drooling liberal who’s trying to call attention to his plight by referring to him as homeless. If it makes you feel better, go ahead, but the reason I called him that is because of clarity: that’s what I started calling him from the outset, and I don’t see any reason to change it. The words “homeless man” are a convenient descriptor, just as is “pisser” which I’ve also called him. > [@](#): > > The cops should not be intervening; they should be assisting. The owner grabs under the arms, the cops each grab a leg. The owner turned the situation over to the police. If he’s not happy with the speed with which they’re doing their jobs, tough shit. It doesn’t give him the right to take the law into his hown hands. The article carefully avoids saying so, but I have serious doubts that the cops just completely ignored the owner while he was demandng the homeless man leave. I’d bet that they likely told him why they wanted the man to stay put for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/109 "2004-09-09T14:38:07Z")
**Lissa** I was going to respond to you point by point but I realized that if you honestly believe that, unless it is explicitly stated in a news article concerning police officers in a public setting that they are in fact wearing pants, then we have no reason to believe that they are, you are either jerking my chain or insufficiently familiar with the conventions of reason for us to communicate. I gladly cede you the last word. I would say last words, but I am not convinved that you can string two or more together coherently. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/110 "2004-09-09T15:28:58Z")
I somewhat confused here: if you call the police, do you give up your legal rights to evict people from the premises? AFAIK, you don’t, there the owner would have been justified in using force to evict the vagrant, assuming the police didn’t invite him in, which is doubtful. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377/111 "2004-09-09T15:38:50Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > **Lissa** > > I was going to respond to you point by point but I realized that if you honestly believe that, unless it is explicitly stated in a news article concerning police officers in a public setting that they are in fact wearing pants, then we have no reason to believe that they are, you are either jerking my chain or insufficiently familiar with the conventions of reason for us to communicate. I see you are unfamiliar with the concept of “sarcasm.” > [@](#): > > I gladly cede you the last word. I would say last words, but I am not convinved that you can string two or more together coherently. Your sad little insult as to my coherency notwithstanding, I will cede to your wishes and end this discussion. My last words? “There is none so blind as he who refuses to see.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piss-on-the-floor-the-owner-gets-arrested-the-inmates-have-overtaken-the-asylum/263377.md?page=5)