# Pit -100 for Hank Williams, Jr. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512 "2011-10-04T02:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/121 "2011-10-04T21:43:00Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Damn I dont remember Hank Williams harping about any of Boehner’s previous and numerous golf binges. Seriously. But this little gaffe allows Fox and Friends (and a couple Dopers) to devote airtime to defending Hank Jr’s comments and avoid addressing the patriotic-to-a-fault Toby Keith’s defense of gay rights: “Somebody’s sexual preference is, like, who cares?” from [CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/30/ap/entertainment/main20114183.shtml) In other news: the political opinions of outspoken pop country stars re-he-heally shouldn’t get this much attention. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/122 "2011-10-04T22:58:16Z")
**magellan01** , didn’t you even bother to find out what Williams said? [Of course not:](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/hank-williams-jr-obama-and-biden-the-enemy/) > [@](#): > > GRETCHEN CARLSON: So, I’ll start with an easy question, who do you like in the GOP race? > WILLIAMS: Nobody. > STEVE DOOCY (co-host): Nobody? > WILLIAMS: You remember the — you remember the golf game they had, ladies and gentlemen? > DOOCY: Yeah? > WILLIAMS: Remember the golf game? > DOOCY: Boehner? > WILLIAMS: That was one of the biggest political mistakes ever. > CO-HOSTS: Why? > WILLIAMS: That turned a lot of people off. You know, watching, you know, it just didn’t go over. > CARLSON: You mean when John Boehner played golf with President Obama? > WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah! Yeah. And Biden and Kasich, yeah. Uh-huh. > CARLSON: What did you not like about it? It seems to be a really pivotal moment for you. > WILLIAMS: Come on. Come on. It would be like Hitler playing golf with Netanyahu, OK? > CARLSON: OK. > WILLIAMS: Not hardly. In the country this shape is in, the shape this country’s in, I mean, no, I don’t think so. > BRIAN KILMEADE (co-host): Yeah, I don’t understand that analogy, actually. > DOOCY: Well, it’s — it’s out there. > **WILLIAMS: Well, I’m glad you don’t, brother, because a lot of people do. You know, they’re the enemy. They’re the enemy. > KILMEADE: Who’s the enemy? > WILLIAMS: Obama! And Biden! Are you kidding? The Three Stooges. > DOOCY: That’s only two.** > […] > CARLSON: I just want to say that we disavow any of those comments or analogies that he’s made, at least I’m going to say that, disavow the analogy between Hitler and the president. Bolding added in the faint hope of your comprehending it. Williams called the President and the Vice-President “the enemy”. Got it now, Foxtard? It’s proof Doocy can at least count, though. 😃 And MNF desperately needed a new theme song anyway. I like the commentary at the end: > [@](#): > > When Steve Doocy is smarter than you and Gretchen Carlson thinks you’ve gone too far in criticizing a Democrat, you might want to think twice about going on national TV and talking politics. > In Hank’s defense, there’s a decent possibility he was drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/123 "2011-10-04T23:07:33Z")
I’m surprised that Steve Doocy could figure out that whether or not Obama and Boehner are Stooges, that only makes **two** Stooges. And that he had the courage to say it! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Macleod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Charlie\_Macleod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Macleod)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/124 "2011-10-04T23:23:22Z")
What do you expect from a frightened little boy (albeit with a beard, & 6ft+ tall)? These people are just plain scared. They have no coping strategies for the whirlwind of changes happening around them, so they resort to a form of whistling in the dark as compensation. They mistake irritation for insight. Certainly frustrating, but sometimes I just feel bad for them. It must be hell to feel cast adrift without an anchor…some will just latch on to anything remotely comfortable…usually the past. If only the stakes weren’t so high. And reasonable people weren’t getting burned at them. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/125 "2011-10-04T23:26:35Z")
Hmmm, since the guy’s a conservative and pro-Republican, this prompted me to search for this guy’s military service. Well as far as I can tell, he has NO military service whatsoever. He was born in 1949 so he would have been of draft age in the late 1960’s. I guess we weren’t fighting any wars then and that’s probably why he didn’t get drafted or even felt the need to join. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/126 "2011-10-04T23:33:04Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > [from CNN:](http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/04/showbiz/williams-football/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) > > “I have always been very passionate about politics and sports and this time it got the best or worst of me,” the country singer said in a statement. > > “The thought of the leaders of both parties jukin’ [sic] and high fiven’ [sic] on a golf course, while so many families are struggling to get by, simply made me boil over and make a dumb statement, and I am very sorry if it offended anyone. I would like to thank all my supporters. This was not written by some publicist,” Williams wrote. > Decent apology, in my opinion. (Also, please note admission of poor judgment, **Chessic Sense** ) I’m still with **Scylla**. I don’t think what he said made any sense. Bocephus probably apologized because he wasn’t even sure what he meant, but it involved Hitler, so the decent thing to do is say you’re sorry. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/127 "2011-10-05T00:03:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **magellan01** , didn’t you even bother to find out what Williams said? [Of course not:](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/hank-williams-jr-obama-and-biden-the-enemy/)Bolding added in the faint hope of your comprehending it. Williams called the President and the Vice-President “the enemy”. I’m not sure what you think this proves. My contention all along was that Williams was ham-handedly trying to make the point that Obama and Boehner are enemies. In his explanation he seems to take the side of Boehner, as he is “good for America” and therefore, Obama is the enemy of America. Others have tried to claim that the meaning was that Obama is like Hitler in a monsterly way. Your cite supports my assertion, not the others. So, thanks, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/128 "2011-10-05T00:20:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m not sure what you think this proves. My contention all along was that Williams was ham-handedly trying to make the point that Obama and Boehner are enemies. In his explanation he seems to take the side of Boehner, as he is “good for America” and therefore, Obama is the enemy of America. Others have tried to claim that the meaning was that Obama is like Hitler in a monsterly way. Your cite supports my assertion, not the others. So, thanks, I guess. I admire your determination. Holding this tight to your stupidity in the face of overwhelming facts takes testicular fortitude. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/129 "2011-10-05T00:55:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I admire your determination. Holding this tight to your stupidity in the face of overwhelming facts takes testicular fortitude. Both testicles, or just one… No wait that’s Hitler again. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/130 "2011-10-05T00:59:12Z")
This event was the subject of the [Moment of Zen](http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-october-3-2011/moment-of-zen---gretchen-carlson-on-roseanne-barr) on The Daily Show yesterday. > [@](#): > > Gretchen Carlson: “Why do we care what Roseanne Barr says? I mean, I don’t really get. Why do we give so much attention to these celebrities and what they say?” > > Caption: One hour later: > > “Joining us right now to break down the GOP 2012 field is country superstar Hank Williams Jr.” I thought that was pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/131 "2011-10-05T01:13:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I admire your determination. Holding this tight to your stupidity in the face of overwhelming facts takes testicular fortitude. No that I question your expertise on stupidity, but what—specifically—do you think is stupid about my position? A shortish would be better for clarity. I await your insight. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/132 "2011-10-05T01:34:03Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > My contention all along was that Williams was ham-handedly trying to make the point that Obama and Boehner are enemies. I agree that that’s the point he was trying to make. But he was attempting to make it in a way that specifically associated Obama with Hitler, precisely because Hitler is widely loathed as evil. > [@magellan01](#): > > Others have tried to claim that the meaning was that Obama is like Hitler in a monsterly way. The two interpretations are not mutually exclusive. Yes, Williams was using the Hitler analogy to make a point about political enmity. And yes, Williams chose an analogy specifically involving Hitler as a deliberate smear on Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/133 "2011-10-05T02:39:12Z")
If the suggested implication is that it’s the ham-handedness that’s the cause for invoking Hitler - in a sense, he merely wanted to illustrate that the two were enemies, and there was geninely zero intent to smear Obama in comparison - i’m not sure that speaks too much of Williams anyway. I don’t believe it, for one thing, Hitler’s way too beyond the norm in terms of references for it to be believably even ham-handed; it’s too much of a mistake to be a mistake, if that makes sense. But even if it was, surely the alternative is worse - to Williams, the Hitler comparison was apt (or, at least, no immediate massive fucking mental objections to the idea came forth) because he doesn’t consider it to be smearing to be compared in such a way. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/134 "2011-10-05T02:44:39Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I don’t believe it, for one thing, Hitler’s way too beyond the norm in terms of references for it to be believably even ham-handed; it’s too much of a mistake to be a mistake, if that makes sense. I really don’t think that to be true. The name of Hitler gets thrown around _all the time_ today, so much that we have a specific “law” to joke about it. It’s possibly the most cliched reference in the world. God, people are making hay over nothing here. The anti-Obama zealots who truly compare him to Hitler should be called out, but this is just not what has happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/135 "2011-10-05T02:58:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I really don’t think that to be true. The name of Hitler gets thrown around _all the time_ today, so much that we have a specific “law” to joke about it. It’s possibly the most cliched reference in the world. That’s true, but it’s by people going way overboard in their hyperbole. You have an organisation of followers - Hitler had them too, so you’re bad. You want to pass law restricting a very limited type of speech - nice try, Hitler! In this case, Williams (it is suggested) isn’t attempting to paint Obama with the Hitler brush. He’s not supposed to be saying “Obama is, in this way, like Hitler, so you should hate him” - but merely using Hitler (where he could use any other notable person of antagonism) to suggest there are enemies here. That he’s using Hitler, not as an example of horrible actions, but as a _neutral term_. Using Hitler merely as any other example might be used; a simple analogy that may be divorced from what we associate him with. The difference is that those who stupidly bring Hitler into an argument do so because, correctly, they note that people associate Hitler with Bad Stuff. They recognise that if they can paint the target of their ire with Hitler, they can paint them with the Bad Stuff that is inherent to the man. If Williams is, as people suggest, using Hitler in his analogy divorced from that Bad Stuff, then he is incapable of recognising that you really can’t seperate the two in people’s minds, nor that there are any other possible analogous people (_any_ other analogous people, for fuck’s sake) who would be more appropriate. And more to the point, the two are, in Williams’ mind, seperatable. Hence why I tend to go for the idea that he was deliberately slinging shit - the alternative speaks much worse of him. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/136 "2011-10-05T03:03:48Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > In this case, Williams (it is suggested) isn’t attempting to paint Obama with the Hitler brush. He’s not supposed to be saying “Obama is, in this way, like Hitler, so you should hate him” - but merely using Hitler (where he could use any other notable person of antagonism) to suggest there are enemies here. Come on now. What other notable person of antagonism was he going to use? Hitler is the one that springs to mind for most people as an example of someone who had an extreme hatred for someone else (in this case, Jews.) Who else would he have used? He was trying to invoke the concept of _polar opposites_ - two people who, in his mind, were diametrically opposed in ideology and goals. I doubt he thought of it in so many words; it was more of a reflex, shot from the hip. But really, I don’t see the insidious intent in Williams’ comment, just a lack of originality. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/137 "2011-10-05T03:18:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Come on now. What other notable person of antagonism was he going to use? Hitler is the one that springs to mind for most people as an example of someone who had an extreme hatred for someone else (in this case, Jews.) Who else would he have used? He was trying to invoke the concept of _polar opposites_ - two people who, in his mind, were diametrically opposed in ideology and goals. I doubt he thought of it in so many words; it was more of a reflex, shot from the hip. But really, I don’t see the insidious intent in Williams’ comment, just a lack of originality. Hatfields and McCoys would be the first one that springs to my mind - it works better, too, even if we could disconnect Hitler from his legacy (which we can’t), since it implies a back and forth on which both sides have some agency. How about Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton? Bonus, since they’re also political figures, making the analogy even more apt. Those would be the first American examples I could think of. As far as it being reflex - it may well have been. But, speaking purely for myself, while i’ll certainly say stupid or ill-advised things on reflex, shot from the hip, my inbuilt “that’s a stupid thing to say” alarm, ill-tuned as it is, would be enough to add in several reasons why using Hitler would be a bad idea even that suddenly and without time to think. And, with respect, even if the sole example I could think of was Hitler - my reaction would not be “Oh well, I can’t think of any other analogous persons. Better go with him!”. It would be to give up on making such an analogy. Not being able to think of anything to say except something stupid is not an excuse for saying it. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/138 "2011-10-05T03:50:27Z")
Even if you buy his bullshit explanation that he wasn’t really comparing Obama to Hitler, he was still expressing disgust over the fact that two people on opposite sides of the political spectrum were willing to work together, or at least making an effort to find common ground. Unfortunately that’s an attitude that’s all too common among folks of his ilk, and is a big reason why congress can’t seem to get anything done, even on routine matters. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/139 "2011-10-05T04:35:31Z")
I compare my cat to Hitler all the time, which reminds me of a favorite website: catsthatlooklikehitler.com ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512/140 "2011-10-05T04:54:04Z")
Cats are too lazy to be Nazis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-100-for-hank-williams-jr/598512.md?page=8)