# Pit Bull Attacks Go On? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188 "2012-01-11T18:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/141 "2012-01-12T09:38:28Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I suspect **brittekland** doesn’t think people should have certain types of dog. Whether one classifies it as a dog or person problem, and whether one classifies the solution by reference to the dogs or the people is (like in the gun control debate) basically meaningless. That’s ridiculous. Of course it makes a difference: if it’s a person problem then targeting certain dogs is stupid. And equating dogs and guns is not valid. Guns exist for the sole purpose of hurting living things. Dogs exist to do all kinds of work, provide joy and companionship, etc. It’s a lame analogy for hte same reason equating guns and cars is a lame analogy. And if that’s Britte’s meaning, Britte should state it plainly instead of dicking around. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/142 "2012-01-12T09:39:38Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > Dogs are owned by people so “dog ownership” and “dogs” are linked. Please step up and clearly state your position instead of playing around with words in ways that end up meaning less than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/143 "2012-01-12T09:41:31Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Please step up and clearly state your position instead of playing around with words in ways that end up meaning less than nothing. Our society has a problem with irresponsible people owning dogs. Am I still “dicking” around? ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/144 "2012-01-12T09:51:17Z")
**Stoid** , If you are asking me whether I have a solution and taking a position, as I stated in the below post (Post #50, I think) I clearly said I can’t see any foreseeable solution. > [@brittekland](#): > > Well, for us folks, out n about walking, jogging, running, and biking, being attacked by unleashed dogs/pit bulls(because they are vicious, tend to not let go & known to kill) is a constant and real threat. > > Such threats are a concern enough that we need to have strategies as to how to deal with them when they occasionally occur. So when you hear another news about a pit bull attack, that caused critical injury to one of us, we all need to reflect again, and again, and again, until we are all satisfied that we’ve thoroughly “reflected” about it until next time however near that may be. > > **Perhaps someday there will be a surefire solution to the problem but I don’t see it** : How about mandatory electronic neck collars that stops pit bulls and other “vicious dogs”, say, that activates when they get near a runner? But then buglers and bad guys would get the transponders as well… sooo… yeh… guess not. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/145 "2012-01-12T09:54:03Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > That’s ridiculous. Of course it makes a difference: if it’s a person problem then targeting certain dogs is stupid. Not if the person problem arises when they have access to categories of dog. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/146 "2012-01-12T09:58:09Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Not if the person problem arises when they have access to categories of dog. If its a person problem they will use what dogs are available. If you are going to try and control the bad behavior of people by controlling the dogs, you’ll have to ban all dogs that have teeth. It hasn’t always been pit bulls, it used to be Dobermans. And German Shepherds. And Rottweilers. Assholes who want to turn dogs into weapons will do so with whatever dogs are available. Banning the dogs doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/147 "2012-01-12T10:00:26Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > Our society has a problem with irresponsible people owning dogs. Am I still “dicking” around? Yes. What is it EXACTLY that you mean when you assert that I am “defending all dog ownerships”? It’s your assertion, it shouldn’t be so challenging. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/148 "2012-01-12T10:16:30Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > If its a person problem they will use what dogs are available. If you are going to try and control the bad behavior of people by controlling the dogs, you’ll have to ban all dogs that have teeth. > > It hasn’t always been pit bulls, it used to be Dobermans. And German Shepherds. And Rottweilers. Assholes who want to turn dogs into weapons will do so with whatever dogs are available. Banning the dogs doesn’t help. This is hysteria. Most dog attacks are not by dogs turned into weapons deliberately. It’s usually at worst just lack of training. The suggestion that lack of training will turn all dogs into something likely to kill or hurt someone is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/149 "2012-01-12T10:19:27Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > So what do you suggest? If you’re **Stoid** , easy, sit on them. ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/150 "2012-01-12T10:35:06Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Yes. What is it EXACTLY that you mean when you assert that I am “defending all dog ownerships”? It’s your assertion, it shouldn’t be so challenging. Answer: > [@](#): > > Do you mean to assert that I am defending the idea of all types of dogs being available to be owned? Yes, that I am definitely defending. > [@](#): > > Anyone who knows how dogs think would not be surprised by this. Cute little lap dogs that are allowed to do anything they like believe they are the boss and will not hesitate to correct any behavior they object to, even coming from the person they seem to love most. You are defending “dog ownership” and yet not accounting for irresponsible/clueless people also owning dogs. If all types of dogs are available to be owned then they will be owned by all kinds of people as dog ownership does not require that you pass a minimum qualification test/license. Therefore when you are on the side of “the idea of all types of dogs being available to be owned” you are also one the side of dog ownership, which is a yet to be resolved problem for our society re: irresponsible folks owning dogs. “anyone who knows how dogs think” is fine and dandy however not all dog owners “knows how dogs think” which is the problem of dog ownership as we have it. In this thread, from how I see it, posters are divided by “us and them” and you are on the side of pro-dog owners/dogs by “defending the idea of all types of dogs being available to be owned” opposed to my side of “I have a problem with the current state of dog ownership in our society”. You are defending “the dog ownership” regardless of the existing problem anyone can own any kind of dog at a whim. ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/151 "2012-01-12T11:21:46Z")
**Stoid** … ? Oy, Carayo, I’m now all awake and gotta start counting again. :: [starts counting](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v_gnbKC2IQg/TtOwDuphdwI/AAAAAAAADbg/Z1f2rZAZkaU/s1600/counting+sheep.jpg):: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/152 "2012-01-12T11:37:34Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > This is hysteria. Most dog attacks are not by dogs turned into weapons deliberately. It’s usually at worst just lack of training. The suggestion that lack of training will turn all dogs into something likely to kill or hurt someone is nonsense. Pardon, I’m not Jack Batty, I made no such suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/153 "2012-01-12T11:45:16Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > A > You are defending “dog ownership” and yet not accounting for irresponsible/clueless people also owning dogs. If all types of dogs are available to be owned then they will be owned by all kinds of people as dog ownership does not require that you pass a minimum qualification test/license. Therefore when you are on the side of “the idea of all types of dogs being available to be owned” you are also one the side of dog ownership, which is a yet to be resolved problem for our society re: irresponsible folks owning dogs. “anyone who knows how dogs think” is fine and dandy however not all dog owners “knows how dogs think” which is the problem of dog ownership as we have it] Still not very clear. Would you advocate that some breeds or types of dogs be banned, or would you advocate that in order to own dogs people must pass some sort of test proving that they wouldn’t screw them up? Because if we’re going that route, can we start with the same kind of thing for people contemplating becoming parents? Far more fucked up human beings have been far moe harmful to society than fucked up dogs, that’s for damn sure. You seem to be operating from this weird notion that everyone has a right to demand that every possible precaution be taken by everyone in every situation to make sure that no one is ever harmed by anything. Unfortunately that’s not the nature of a free society. In order for us all to be as free as possible we have to put up with the fact that some of us deal less well with our freedom than others. > [@](#): > > In this thread, from how I see it, posters are divided by “us and them” and you are on the side of pro-dog owners/dogs by “defending the idea of all types of dogs being available to be owned” opposed to my side of “I have a problem with the current state of dog ownership in our society”. You are defending “the dog ownership” regardless of the existing problem anyone can own any kind of dog at a whim. Since you don’t have a solution for the problem of shitty dog owners, what difference does it make? Banning types or breeds doesn’t change the shitty dog owners into good ones, nor does it change aggressive assholes with evil intentions into less aggressive assholes with less evil intentions. Requiring people to take a test wouldn’t help, either. So what “side” are you on? Ban dogs, period? MY “side” is: educate, educate, educate. Put resources to education. And that’s my side for most things. ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/154 "2012-01-12T12:42:14Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Still not very clear. Would you advocate that some breeds or types of dogs be banned, or would you advocate that in order to own dogs people must pass some sort of test proving that they wouldn’t screw them up? Because if we’re going that route, can we start with the same kind of thing for people contemplating becoming parents? Far more fucked up human beings have been far moe harmful to society than fucked up dogs, that’s for damn sure. > > You seem to be operating from this weird notion that everyone has a right to demand that every possible precaution be taken by everyone in every situation to make sure that no one is ever harmed by anything. Unfortunately that’s not the nature of a free society. In order for us all to be as free as possible we have to put up with the fact that some of us deal less well with our freedom than others. No, I didn’t say anything about banning any bleed or killing them off nor do I think such is practical or doable. > [@](#): > > I did not say anything about killing off a bleeds. Go find the poster you were arguing about that. > [@](#): > > Perhaps someday there will be a surefire solution to the problem but I don’t see it: How about mandatory electronic neck collars that stops pit bulls and other “vicious dogs”, say, that activates when they get near a runner? But then buglers and bad guys would get the transponders as well… sooo… yeh… guess not. No, it is an ideal. As a society we figure out and set up ideals as targets. Even if we don’t achieve the ideal we are better off than not having it. Yes I believe we can do better at preparing kids and clueless youngens to be better apt parents. We owe minimum our attempts to the posterity. [Why don't we have mandatory child rearing course in school? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630163) I surely want to see some thoughts put into the prevention of any possible dangers that we can do something about even though all we can do might not be actively functional prevention mechanisms. Just awareness is better than doing nothing. Individual freedom that can maul and kill its citizens, a society should be able to come to terms with some sacrifice; we are not airlines or corporations making decisions to forego fixes as paying compensation made to the casualties figure cheaper for their bottom line. How would you like to lose your family member as just an inconvenient figure written off for the bottom line? I believe we ought to do what we conclude as the right thing to do to as a society or individuals. > [@](#): > > Since you don’t have a solution for the problem of shitty dog owners, what difference does it make? Banning types or breeds doesn’t change the shitty dog owners into good ones, nor does it change aggressive assholes with evil intentions into less aggressive assholes with less evil intentions. Requiring people to take a test wouldn’t help, either. > > So what “side” are you on? Ban dogs, period? MY “side” is: educate, educate, educate. Put resources to education. And that’s my side for most things. I’m not on the side of doing nothing. Minimum keep the discourse going instead of bickering. Well, that’s nice to finally know your position! Education would be natural and pragmatic option and I’m all for it. Hey, **Stoid** , we’ve finally come to a positive note it seems and I like it! By the way, it’s not “Britte”. 🙂 Peace. Now where was I? One sheep dog and… ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/155 "2012-01-12T13:22:33Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > So I take it you struggled to come up with something to say about my second sentence. And you didn’t want to admit that. So you said you had already done so. > > Sounds like disingenuousness to me. You’re dodging. Now you’re claiming to want a nuanced discussion, after proposing the slaughter of 30 million dogs as the solution to 22 deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/156 "2012-01-12T13:43:00Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Pardon, I’m not Jack Batty, I made no such suggestion. Neither did I, dipshit. Thanks for clearing up my grammar when I suggested that dogs generally act like dogs – i.e., they are animals, and need to be trained – but I didn’t say that all untrained dogs are automatically Rambo-esque throat rippers. But some sure could be. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/157 "2012-01-12T14:16:12Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > I’d love to see some evidence of that - other than pit bull apologists making it up because it sounds good. Anecdote not cite but when we were having issues with our neighbor letting our dogs out of the back yard the reports to animal control all reported two pitbulls running wild. They’re both purebred boxers. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/158 "2012-01-12T14:49:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > [Dog pepper spray.](http://www.macecanada.com/canada/product/sabre.htm#P-SDAD-01) You’re right about leash laws - we have strict leash laws here, and it doesn’t seem to make any difference. I think part of the problem here is the off-leash areas - it opens the door for owners to be irresponsible with their pets (dogs are supposed to be under control all the time while off leash - you can imagine how strictly enforced THAT is). It gives the (mistaken) impression that leashing/controlling your dog is a sometime thing, and no particular big deal. I’d like to see the off-leash areas completely done away with - all dogs leashed at all times while around other people - no exceptions. They’re counting on owners to do the right, responsible thing, and that just isn’t happening. I think it depends where (in Calgary) you live. I have seen bylaw out and about, especially during the summer. How is it fair to get rid of the official off-leash dog parks? How about people who don’t want to be surrounded by playing off-leash dogs go walk somewhere else where dogs aren’t allowed? I have to say it annoys the hell out of me when I take my dog to an off-leash area and someone gets annoyed if he goes near them. It’s not like there aren’t signs all over the place saying it’s an off leash area. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/159 "2012-01-12T15:45:23Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The catch: in order to claim your Skalderal, you’ve got to spend five minutes in a cage with either an average, pretty pissed off standard poodle or an average, pretty pissed off honest-to-goodness pit bull. Assume they’re pissed at you and aim to do something about it. Which do you choose? > > I daresay most people would prefer to be poodled rather than pitted. Is it being suggested that because there is a lack of hard scientific evidence (hello Mythbusters?), it really is a toss-up between which cage you’d pick? I’ve met multiple dogs of both breeds and varying training levels. I’d pick the pit in a fucking heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/160 "2012-01-12T15:54:47Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > What’s the solution with folks who let their dogs roam free in and around their property, _particularly_ in the rural areas, that chase and try to nip me when I ride my bike through the roads adjacent to their property? Report all of them? That never seemed to do any thing. > > How can we have all dog owners to have their dogs leashed? Apparently leash laws don’t seem to phase some dog owners. What are none dog owners/folks with no dog experience at all to do when randomly encountering unleashed dogs? As a dog lover who grew up in a rural area with a lot of stupidly trained un-leashed dogs, I stand by your absolute right to pepper spray or outright shoot any unleashed dog that is in an attack posture or actively nipping you. > [@brittekland](#): > > I pepper spray their dogs and the owner spray me with shot gun pellets go through my mind. If that’s actually a worry, maybe it’s not really the dogs that are the problem here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188.md?page=9)