# Pit Bull Attacks Go On? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188 "2012-01-11T18:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/161 "2012-01-12T16:03:07Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > This is hysteria. Most dog attacks are not by dogs turned into weapons deliberately. It’s usually at worst just lack of training. The suggestion that lack of training will turn all dogs into something likely to kill or hurt someone is nonsense. I would bet actual money that most dog attacks are by dogs turned into weapons _accidentally_, by poor/counterproductive training or neglect. In my rural childhood experience, the most dangerous dogs are the ones owned by macho men who think it’s important to have a big barky dog or three, and who keep them in an outdoor cage that’s far too small rain or shine, and don’t walk them enough, and rile them up to get 'em to bark for fun. Those dogs come to learn that humans are not their friends, and that they get rewarded for aggressive showy behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/162 "2012-01-12T16:03:56Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > As a dog lover who grew up in a rural area with a lot of stupidly trained un-leashed dogs, I stand by your absolute right to pepper spray or outright shoot any unleashed dog that is in an attack posture or actively nipping you. > > If that’s actually a worry, maybe it’s not really the dogs that are the problem here? Owners of small ruminants use the 3S principle - Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up. As it was explained to me, “You’re going to shoot your neighbor’s dog if you find it chasing your livestock. But don’t tell them, there’s no sense stirring up bad feelings.” I’ve also know a sheep veterinarian who keeps a rifle in his car - he uses it to shoot any stray dog who crosses his path as he drives up and down the roads. After you see the devastation loose dogs can wreak on herds of sheep or goats it’s understandible. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/163 "2012-01-12T16:08:03Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > Owners of small ruminants use the 3S principle - Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up. As it was explained to me, “You’re going to shoot your neighbor’s dog if you find it chasing your livestock. But don’t tell them, there’s no sense stirring up bad feelings.” > > I’ve also know a sheep veterinarian who keeps a rifle in his car - he uses it to shoot any stray dog who crosses his path as he drives up and down the roads. After you see the devastation loose dogs can wreak on herds of sheep or goats it’s understandible. Absolutely. If your dog is important to you, it will A) be restrained unless something out of the ordinary happened. B) be collared with identifying information and well-trained enough to be polite to someone who is examining that collar C) not be barking at, chasing, and/or nipping/biting random people. Fail these conditions, such that your dog is a menace, and someone should put it down. ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/164 "2012-01-12T16:21:41Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > If that’s actually a worry, maybe it’s not really the dogs that are the problem here? I’ve talked to some strange weird dog owners not responsive at all to my plead or the explanation of the law. Neither did talking to the cops did much as I found out the next time I went by their house, they were looking at me getting chased by their dogs from their pouch with no expression whatsoever. Going by their house is not “my life”. I found different route in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/165 "2012-01-12T17:38:47Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > I’ve talked to some strange weird dog owners not responsive at all to my plead or the explanation of the law. Neither did talking to the cops did much as I found out the next time I went by their house, they were looking at me getting chased by their dogs from their pouch with no expression whatsoever. Going by their house is not “my life”. I found different route in the end. In this case, I totally advocate the “shoot, shovel, shut up” solution for any of 'em that are actually nipping at you in even a remotely hostile manner. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/166 "2012-01-12T17:55:40Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > Our society has a problem with irresponsible people owning dogs. \ Hear hear! > [@EmAnJ](#): > > I think it depends where (in Calgary) you live. I have seen bylaw out and about, especially during the summer. > > How is it fair to get rid of the official off-leash dog parks? How about people who don’t want to be surrounded by playing off-leash dogs go walk somewhere else where dogs aren’t allowed? I have to say it annoys the hell out of me when I take my dog to an off-leash area and someone gets annoyed if he goes near them. It’s not like there aren’t signs all over the place saying it’s an off leash area. :rolleyes: There are two problems with off-leash areas as they are; they’re done stupidly by the city, and they rely on people to behave responsibly with their dogs. In my neighbourhood, the off-leash area runs right next to a multi-use path. The path is an on-leash area; the off-leash area is right next to it with no fence or anything; people just assume that the whole thing is designated off-leash. There were official signs posted by the city last summer informing people of this, and they were quickly ripped down (I assume by people using the areas who didn’t like the idea of being educated). The expectation of people being responsible with their dogs is, in my experience, completely unrealistic. A dog is allowed to use an off-leash area if it is under control at all times; an off-leash area isn’t a free-for-all, but it is treated that way, with people using it saying things like if you don’t like dogs running around, you should stay out of it - that’s not the idea behind off-leash areas. On leash all the time in the city makes sense to me, because people have shown time and again that they can’t handle the responsibility of making good judgements about having their dog off leash. For the record, [here are Calgary’s off-leash rules.](http://www.calgary.ca/CSPS/Parks/Pages/Locations/Dog-off-leash-areas-in-parks.aspx#rules) ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/167 "2012-01-12T18:21:50Z")
I won’t take my dogs to unfenced off leash areas. No matter how reliably my dogs return when called in a normal situation there are too many uncontrollable factors for me to feel comfortable with their safety unleashed with no fences. So basically that setup is bad for people and bad for dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/168 "2012-01-12T18:27:48Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > I won’t take my dogs to unfenced off leash areas. No matter how reliably my dogs return when called in a normal situation there are too many uncontrollable factors for me to feel comfortable with their safety unleashed with no fences. > > So basically that setup is bad for people and bad for dogs. I agree. I can call my dogs off chasing a rabbit or squirrel in the yard, they generally listen well, and we drill drop and recall commands, but you never know what might be too tempting to resist. It’s just not worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/169 "2012-01-12T18:45:22Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Hear hear! > There are two problems with off-leash areas as they are; they’re done stupidly by the city, and they rely on people to behave responsibly with their dogs. In my neighbourhood, the off-leash area runs right next to a multi-use path. The path is an on-leash area; the off-leash area is right next to it with no fence or anything; people just assume that the whole thing is designated off-leash. There were official signs posted by the city last summer informing people of this, and they were quickly ripped down (I assume by people using the areas who didn’t like the idea of being educated). > > The expectation of people being responsible with their dogs is, in my experience, completely unrealistic. A dog is allowed to use an off-leash area if it is under control at all times; an off-leash area isn’t a free-for-all, but it is treated that way, with people using it saying things like if you don’t like dogs running around, you should stay out of it - that’s not the idea behind off-leash areas. On leash all the time in the city makes sense to me, because people have shown time and again that they can’t handle the responsibility of making good judgements about having their dog off leash. > > For the record, [here are Calgary’s off-leash rules.](http://www.calgary.ca/CSPS/Parks/Pages/Locations/Dog-off-leash-areas-in-parks.aspx#rules) I know the of-leash rules very well, actually, and I agree that some off-leash areas are not well planned. However, if the city would construct them more like the Southland off-leash park, everyone would be happy. So maybe instead of the non-dog owners punishing us all (even the responsible dog owners) for the mistakes of a few, both non-dog owners and dog owners should petition the city as a group to create better off-leash areas? That would make much more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/170 "2012-01-12T19:42:28Z")
I think fencing in all the off-leash areas might help - it might make it crystal clear that THIS is the off-leash area, and the rest of Calgary isn’t. Putting multi-use paths and off-leash areas together is just a recipe for disaster, too - they seem like they go together, but they don’t really. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/171 "2012-01-12T20:17:58Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think fencing in all the off-leash areas might help - it might make it crystal clear that THIS is the off-leash area, and the rest of Calgary isn’t. Putting multi-use paths and off-leash areas together is just a recipe for disaster, too - they seem like they go together, but they don’t really. Yes, I 100% agree! ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/172 "2012-01-13T00:57:55Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > I won’t take my dogs to unfenced off leash areas. No matter how reliably my dogs return when called in a normal situation there are too many uncontrollable factors for me to feel comfortable with their safety unleashed with no fences. > > So basically that setup is bad for people and bad for dogs. A friend in Vancouver lost his dog in an unfenced off leash park. He managed to find his dog, but there were 3 days of worry. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/173 "2012-01-13T02:13:02Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > In this case, I totally advocate the “shoot, shovel, shut up” solution for any of 'em that are actually nipping at you in even a remotely hostile manner. Fuck, skip the shovel. Leave them there as a reminder for the others. OTOH, I grew up in rabies country, where the policy of the county health department regarding strays was “shoot it and send the head to the health department,” and they would probably object to you leaving around an untested carcass. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/174 "2012-01-13T02:28:27Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Um, no. A dog, mutt or purebred, that is black with a white bib is a dog who inherited the color genetics for black, and one of the white spotting forms. There are purebreds who have that color combinations, so it has nothing to do with “far apart”. Nah. Artificial Pariah Dogs, as a reconvergence of lots of ancient dominant genes, can be black and white. > [@](#): > > Again, no. Pointers are Sporting dogs and Dalmatians Non-Sporting. Hounds may have been used to create the breeds way back when, but as they are now neither is a hound breed. Piffle. Those distinctions are the product of Victorian and Edwardian kennel clubs. Look at the two and imagine them both in solid white. Hounds. > [@](#): > > 😕 Where are you distributing it too? The knowledge is to anybody who reads this thread. Physically, nowhere, since he got his Stupid Dog Syndrome repaired. There is a reason they call it “getting him fixed.” ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/175 "2012-01-13T14:28:33Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think fencing in all the off-leash areas might help - it might make it crystal clear that THIS is the off-leash area, and the rest of Calgary isn’t. Putting multi-use paths and off-leash areas together is just a recipe for disaster, too - they seem like they go together, but they don’t really. Amen. All the dog parks in Omaha are fenced in. It’s the only way to go. My dog is better now, but in the first year I had him he would have been in the next county if we took him to an unfenced dog park. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/176 "2012-01-13T16:16:37Z")
Worst Celine Dion song _ever_. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/177 "2012-01-14T02:00:43Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > So your stand is I’m a responsible dog owner hence it’s not my problem? Weren’t you taking the dog owner/pro-dog position? If not, I’m not getting what this/our argument is about. That is either because you are going around in circles on purpose, or you aren’t being clear when you post. Your earlier posts made it sound like you want all dogs to be - what? - killed? confined? something so that there would be no chance that anyone would ever be bitten again. If this isn’t what you are on about then you need to clarify. > [@](#): > > Out of all the dog owners only a certain percentage is responsible enough to train them properly and leash them etc. What are we to do about the rest is the subject of this thread. Out of all of those, very few are going to have animals that are going to bite with little or no cause. > [@](#): > > I don’t know… why don’t you go down the list of pit bull attacks on the second link on the OP. Maybe it’s just me but I surely hear “pit bulls” a lot. As has been said _many_ times, that is because they are the current breed in favor with little boys with little dicks. Then the media jumps on the bandwagon because public hysteria sells ads, and every dog that looks even marginally like a pit gets ID’d as one, whether it even has any of the bully breeds in it or not. Wait a few years, some other breed will be the one every one is afraid of. It isn’t going to help anything to eliminate any dog that looks like a pit, as the wrong sorts of owners will just move on to something new. > [@](#): > > Me, paranoid? If you are running and riding bikes as much as I do and encounter as many badly behaving unleashed dogs, you would be concerned too. As I said upthread someplace, I’ve interacted with literally hundreds of thousands of dogs and have been bitten. However, because I am not afraid of that, I am not particularly concerned about badly behaving unleashed dogs. > [@](#): > > I’m not focused on dogs as the only concern in the “Shit Happens” category, as you put it. I’m just discussing about it in this thread since this thread is about pit bull/dog attacks, prompted by the news; this is not the all encompassing thread about all that causes “shit happens”… just dogs… and happens to be pit bulls, on this particular round. So, you do want a magic bullet to prevent any bad thing that might happen to you? > [@Princhester](#): > > Why do you need to ask this when as a responsible poster and debater you’ve read and taken on board my post #94? Not at all sure what you are trying to say here. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/178 "2012-01-14T02:10:17Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Nah. Artificial Pariah Dogs, as a reconvergence of lots of ancient dominant genes, can be black and white. _Can_ be black and white. You were trying to claim that the appearance of the black with white bib meant anything other than the parents passed the right color genes on to the pup. > [@](#): > > Piffle. Those distinctions are the product of Victorian and Edwardian kennel clubs. Look at the two and imagine them both in solid white. Hounds.The knowledge is to anybody who reads this thread. Uh, OK - you know nothing about dog breeds. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > Physically, nowhere, since he got his Stupid Dog Syndrome repaired. There is a reason they call it “getting him fixed.” Or, you’ve been drinking… ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/179 "2012-01-14T02:54:13Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > Actually, when one does research on fatal dog attacks as reported by medical examiners - no press involved - dogs described as pit bulls are still hugely over represented. It is not just some reporter’s bias. OTOH, according to dog blogs I read that report dog attacks, “pit bull” seems to be a catch phrase for “large, powerful dog.” Later reports may be amended to say that the dog was a German Shepherd mix or a lab mix or whatever. Many folks who look at dogs have no idea what breed they actually are, and their guesses are often laughably inaccurate. BTW, as someone who’s owned German Shepherds, an Akita, and quite a few Australian Shepherds, I have to say that the size of the dog has nothing to do with its trainability. Large dogs are certainly no harder to train than little dogs. The big difference is that you can’t just pick a big dog up and walk away with them. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188/180 "2012-01-14T03:19:19Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > So in my friend’s scenario, her friend got a lap dog, then after a couple of years my friend start coming around and hang out at the house. **There were no warnings of any problem nor were the owner aware of any problem from this docile lap dog.** Then one day the dog instantaneously jumped up and nearly bites my friend’s nose off. By then this dog’s been around and sitting on my friend’s lap for something like 2 years. Everyone was baffled and in total shock as to how, why, what? Do average people expect a docile lap dog to, one day, bite someone’s nose off? Well, since then everyone who was around do. I always wonder at stories like this. I can’t believe the dog showed NO signs of stress or SOMETHING before the attack happened. People often treat lap dogs differently than big dogs. Little dog growls? “Ah, how cute, he think he’s a BIG DOG.” That growling is telling you something, and it’s NOT that the dog thinks he’s a big dog. I’ve had a couple of dogs try to bite me, and I can tell you that every time, I could see that the dog had something on his mind. Well, except for the chow that tried to sneak up behind me and bite my ankle. But that’s cuz he was behind me. When I realized what was going on, I walked away backwards, facing the dog. Dog body language and eye language are pretty human-readable, if you take the time to learn it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bull-attacks-go-on/609188.md?page=10)