Scupper - :dubious:
That seems to be some disinformation on someones side. My bullsh*t meter is going off slightly.
As for PitBulls not being aggressive, I agree. I retract my statement before. However, ask yourself who would be more menacing, a trained aggressive pit bull and a trained aggressive Yorky? Nuff said.
I stand by my assertion on who would win the fight…A wild non-domesticated wolf would trounce a pit.
I know this is IMHO and everyone is entitled to an opinion and so on… but I really am surprised at the number of posters who are of the opinion that the PB would win this hypothetical battle.
IMO, a wild, adult wolf (let alone an alpha-male wolf) would kill the pitbull. It doesn’t seem like much of a contest, really. Duly noted that wolves may be less aggressive (generally) and hunt in packs, but in a fight to the death, a wolf would become quite aggressive very quickly. And if the wolf happened to be really hungry then the whole question becomes laughable.
(PS-- this is only MY opinion, of course, and I know almost nothing about either animal… just seems obvious to me.
)
As well as adult male wolves have been known to bring down animals three times their size and bigger by themselves… I’ll look for the cite.
Could you be more specific? Are you saying I’m exaggerating the strength of an admittedly large pitbull, that I’m suggesting that the owner in question actually had real-live wolves, or that I’m lying when I say my brother’s dog is a sweet dog?
He’s a big, tough dog. I would not be at all surprised to see him ruin a dog much larger than himself. My brother claims to have witnessed just such an event, multiplied many times over, much to his dismay.
I’m extremely skeptical about the other guy’s assertion that his animals were “wolves,” as I hope the quotation marks suggest.
I would trade Linus for my own dog in a second if not for the fact that I have a personal rule: don’t own a dog that could take you out, mano a perro. The dalmatian, I can handle. Linus, I could handle armed.
Who’s talking about trained aggressive dogs? I’m talking about a normally very nice dog whose buttons got pushed by some big-ass wolf look-alikes.
I would say it depends on how you define pitbull, as others have said. If you’re talking about a runty little brindle-coated 40 pounder, then sure. If you’re talking about the larger varieties, such as Linus, I wouldn’t bet against him. That dog’s jaw looks like he swallowed a volleyball.
A lot of people think wolves and think something the size of a German Sheperd. They would be wrong. They are long, A male alpha would easily exceed 6 feet. The tip of their shoulder would be nearly 3 feet. The strength of their jaws can crush a Moose bone, and their jaws are exercised on a fairly regular basis, as part of survival.
It’s one weakness in this type of fight would be the fact that they barely tip the scales at 100 pounds, maybe a few pounds more for the alpha. It is true that the nape has loose skin and a whole heck of a lot of fur (Watch the dominance game an alpha must go through, they all go directly for the throat, yet come out unscathed). With a lucky bite, a pit bull might lunge far enough in to get the wolves throat, simply because the wolves aren’t that substantial size wise.
The venue would also be important. Wolves aren’t real close quarters type fighters. The larger the area given, the more advantage that goes to the wolf.
Cite?
This is one of the most rediculous bits of nonsense that surrounds this maligned breed.
Listen. Pit bulls (of any variety) DO. NOT. HAVE. LOCKING. JAWS. Period.
Are they tenacious bastards (
)? Yes.
Do they have extremely powerful, muscular jaws? Yes.
Do they like to fight? Right down to the bottom of their game lil hearts.
Do they have some sort of special locking mechanism in their jaws that no other breed has? No. They don’t.
One of the reasons that it’s so hard to break them from a bite is the fact that they are absolutely driven to fight–it’s what they’re bred for, the same way a border collie is absolutely driven to herd. They want that hold more than food, or a bitch in heat, or anything that exists. Also, their face is comprised of very bulky, very powerful muscles. They do not have any sort of locking mechanism in their jaws.
In regards to the person who compared a pit bull’s bite strength with that of a panther, that’s another silly misnomer. I’ve heard over and over again that a pit bull has a bite pressure of 1,500 pounds psi, or 3,000 pounds psi, or whatever, or that a pit bull has a bite stronger than [insert scary animal here], but any objective system with which to measure a dog’s bite pressure has not been invented yet. This is partially because the strength of a dog’s bite is going to vary from day to day and activity to activity. Sport trained or personal protection dogs vary hugely in their bite pressure from decoy to decoy, day to day, event to event. It depends on how driven the dog is to bite, whether it’s working in prey or defence mode, distractions, blah blah blah. Dog A might have a bite like an alligator one day, and the next he might not be nearly as worked up. Does that make sense?
That all having been said, I’ve seen this pit bull vs [insert wild animal opponent of choice] ‘debate’ sooooooo many times. Here’s my take on it.
[disclaimer]I am not involved in dog fighting. I deplore any suggestion that fighting two animals for the purpose of entertainment or any other reason is a good thing. I have extensive knowledge of dog training and dog mentality. I have a lot of experience working with and around dog trainers and pit bulls. I love pit bulls. I’m a staunch defender of them, and in order to defend something, you’ve got to know your enemies. I know more about dog fighting than the average person, mostly due to being involved in pit bull rescue.[/disclaimer]
Pit bulls love to fight. Once a game pit is exposed to dog fighting, it’s all that dog wants in the entire universe. Again, the same way any other breed of dog has a passion for the activity it was bred to do. They fight because it makes them happy to make another dog dead.
Wolves fight for survival. Food, procreation, dominance. Even dominance scuffles are rarely more than a lot of vocal bluffing and posturing and maybe a few snarky snaps. One wolf submits, end of discussion. Fighting wastes energy. Wolves do not participate in combat for the sake of combat. A wolf, just like any other wild animal faced with an illogically aggressive adversary, is more than likely to turn and run once it becomes apparent that the fight is useless. What I’m saying is, if the wolf didn’t have a very compelling reason to fight in the first place, it just wouldn’t happen. If you’re talking about putting the two in a dog pit, there would be zero reason for that wolf to fight the pit bull, and it probably wouldn’t last minutes.
There are many, many breeds of dogs that are wolf-like in mentality and structure. None of them are used for dog fighting. Why is this? Because the pit bull is absolutely engineered to be the ultimate fighting dog. Matched against a taller, less compact dog of any breed, the pit bull is generally going to dispatch his opponent in very short order. That low center of gravity helps a lot. Couple this with an almost complete lack of pain response, and there are few dog breeds that can consistently compare to the pit bull in the fighting pit. The Tosa Inu (~25 inches at the shoulder, weight range 130-150 pounds plus) is revered in Japan for ceremonial fighting. Not much competition for a game pit bull. This is not to say that no pit bull will ever be beaten by a dog any other breed, I’m only saying that no breed can ever consistently compare to a pit bull’s fighting abilities. If they did, pit fighters would use them.
I wish they weren’t so good at what they do. They’re the absolutely nicest people-dogs on the face of the planet. But they love to fight, and sadly way too many people continue to breed and use them for this purpose 
Peace,
~mixie
MixieArmadillo is completely correct. “Pit bulls” (and has been pointed out, this term applies to a large number of breeds and mixed-breeds) do not have locking jaws. Their jaws and their teeth are in no way distinctly different from any other breed of dog. That’s right- a pit bull has the same shape of teeth and jaw as a papillon, uses the same muscles to manuever them, and is just as incapable of “locking” them. (Yes, their teeth and jaws are larger and stronger. They are larger and stronger dogs.) This is because they are both dogs. The unusually wide variety of dog sizes, colors, coat types, etc. often leads people to believe there must be fundamental differences between breeds of dog. In a sense this is correct, since a border collie will most likely love to herd while a mastiff will most likely not, but beyond this, a dog is a dog is a dog. All dogs are capable of “vicious” behavior; all dogs will bite just as all dogs will breathe.
As for agression in “pit” breeds, yes and no. The American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (and a few others) are all descended from fighting dogs. Generations of selective breeding by professional and amateur dog-fighters has produced a dog who loves to fight other dogs. This is unfortunate but true, but can be curbed in well-trained and socialized animals. (I have one myself, and he gets along beautifully with my other dogs and various pets.) How this was accomplished is open to question. The best theory is that only dogs who showed a willingness to fight other dogs were allowed to breed. Only dogs who would continue to fight long after other dogs had given up, and dogs who generally refused to accept social signals from other dogs were allowed to breed. A few generations of this sort of strict application and you’ve got yourself a fighter. Dog-aggressive dogs were prized. People-aggressive dogs were culled, because a dog who bites people is of no use to a dog-fighter and can get him disqualified from a match. Terriers were bred into the line because terriers were bred to be tenacious, since they were used to “go to ground” by hunters- go down an animal’s hole and fight to the death with a panicked beastie fighting for its life. All the non-tenacious terriers perished long ago in epic battles with badgers.
Now an alpha-wolf…well, a wolf will generally fight the hardest against another wolf it considers has comitted the unpardonable crime of lese majeste. A pit bull might do this, sure, but only if it was on the wolf’s own territory and the wolf felt its position was threatened. Which it might not, since wolves are generally more adept at social communication than dogs, and threats from non-wolves are generally ignored or run from, since there’s nothing to gain and much to lose by risking a fight with somebody you don’t much care about. It’s doubtful a wolf would be dumb enough to attack a pit in a predatory fashion- a few years in the wilderness and you get pretty adept at what’s good eatin’ and what’s a lot more trouble than it’s worth.
So in a fight situation, a wolf is going to be smart enough to say “I should probably just get the hell out of here, since this thing is obviously crazy, I can’t eat it, and as it’s a complete stranger has no bearing on my hierarchical position.” A pit might attack a wolf, but then it might. Depends on the socialization, the training, and whether or not a pit would even consider a wolf a dog rather than just some weird vaguely dog-like animal.
This has little to do with the OP, but its interesting.
We had to keep a close eye on our dog when we let him out.
A wolf is a hunitng animal, as such it has learned how to kill quickly and effectively.
If the wolf gets to the pit bull first, the pit bull will die, if it it get more prolonged the odds would swing against the wolf.
Any owner of hunting dogs will tell you that a blooded animal is more than a match for any pet, no matter how large.
Even Jack Russels that have been used for hunting will present a serious problem to a much larger pet alsation.
Good point, if the said wolf is hungry, there is even less chance for the Pit. I think those posting in favor of the Pit, either own one, or have a close friend that does, and they are most likely nice cute cuddly dogs. I’ve met my fair share of nice Pits. But as Mixie said they are fighting dogs. A border Collie must herd animals/kids whatever, a Pit yurns to fight. Though they may live their entire lives not fighting, is doesn’t mean like “Scupper” said - it doesn’t mean they won’t turn in an instant and go for the Juggular (sp?).
Hasn’t anyone ever seen The Journey of Natty Gan? or was that White Fang.
Wild vs. Domestic;
Wild will always whip domestic, all other things being equal.
A good way to look at this; I live in a rural area and have outdoor cats, these cats weigh between 10-13 lbs. Anyone of these cats could, (and one has), kill a dog up to 25lbs. The cats are just faster and still hunt, (meaning they have to kill their prey).
Do you know who their most dangerous predator is? A six pound grey fox. The fox goes right up the tree after them, and is even faster than barn cats.
100+ lbs. of wolf is so much faster than any domestic dog, that if the wolf is pissed, the dog is dead, and eaten. Regardless of breed.
DougC, can’t we all just get along?
Ah, Hyenas; the femminist form of carnivore.
I’ve had several friends with pit bulls (even one idiot “friend” with a few horribly vicious pits that he claimed he fought), and in the years I delivered pizza I came across quite a few pits. More than one of them tried to bite me.
I would place my money on the Wolf for one simple reason.
I’m not the least bit afraid of a pit bull. Like I said, I’ve seen them in all shapes and sizes, and all personalities, and I’m 100% confident that I could take one out before it could take me out.
A wild wolf (especially an alpha male) would give me pause.
YEAH MAN!! That’s what I’m talkin about.
If a pitbull was going for me I would give it my arm then once it had bit that I would cradle it up with my other arm and drop it on a fence spike or something , but I definitely feel I would have the shittest time against the wolf.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MixieArmadillo *
**Cite?
This is one of the most rediculous bits of nonsense that surrounds this maligned breed.
Listen. Pit bulls (of any variety) DO. NOT. HAVE. LOCKING. JAWS. Period.
Are they tenacious bastards ( )? Yes.
Do they have extremely powerful, muscular jaws? Yes.
Do they like to fight? Right down to the bottom of their game lil hearts.
Do they have some sort of special locking mechanism in their jaws that no other breed has? No. They don’t.
Well, I actually assumed their jaws were physically no different than those of other dogs… by locking jaw I reference the tendancy pit bulls (and other similar breeds of dogs) have to bite down on something (usually the throat area from what I’ve read and seen) and just NOT let go. Sure, they’d let go if they want to… the fact is that when they go at it with another dog UNLESS WELL TRAINED… they don’t WANT to stop, they’re doing what they were BRED to do. Locking jaws is just a description of a documented behavior and capability in the breed, not a physiological feature.
And no, I’m not down on the breed… they make wonderful pets if cared for properly, but whitewashing how they came to exist and certain details about why they do the things they do and look the way they look is nonsense also.
Anybody want to discuss bull baiting next? Sheesh…
