# Pit Bulls. Again and Again and Again...... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414 "2007-01-02T15:02:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/241 "2007-01-04T14:01:05Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Basenjis can kill children? In that case I’d be through there as soon as I heard it bark. :eek: Yes, I know. As to restricting - I believe all I’ve done so far in this thread is to suggest that certain dog owners ought to restrict themselves. Unfortunately it’s rather laid me open to the crowd who like to go “You know, my 24oz Mongolian tripe-hound could kill a premature baby if it got into the incubator, so I don’t know why you’re making all the fuss about a Siberian husky/timber wolf cross!”. It’s all very puzzling. [/QUOTE] I said nothing about timber wolves. I am responding to this statement only. > [@](#): > > dogs that are big and strong enough to kill small children shouldn’t be the first choice for household pets ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/242 "2007-01-04T14:57:26Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Basenjis can kill children? In that case I’d be through there as soon as I heard it bark. :eek: Yes, I know. As to restricting - I believe all I’ve done so far in this thread is to suggest that certain dog owners ought to restrict themselves. Unfortunately it’s rather laid me open to the crowd who like to go “You know, my 24oz Mongolian tripe-hound could kill a premature baby if it got into the incubator, so I don’t know why you’re making all the fuss about a Siberian husky/timber wolf cross!”. It’s all very puzzling. [/QUOTE] Wolf hybrids are a whole 'nother thread. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/243 "2007-01-04T15:28:42Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] Wolf hybrids are a whole 'nother thread. [/QUOTE] I would not argue with you over a question of canids. 🙂 But seriously, why? We’ve established that pit bulls are specially bred to be aggressive _to other dogs_ and so, presumably, are no more dangerous to children than any other domestic breed. Very well; wolves are typically very wary of humans and go out of their way to leave us alone, I understand. And if it comes to that, Komodo dragons prey on wild cattle and the like - so no-one’s child is going to be at risk if I take it into my head to keep a Komodo dragon in my garden? ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/244 "2007-01-04T15:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] I would not argue with you over a question of canids. 🙂 But seriously, why? We’ve established that pit bulls are specially bred to be aggressive _to other dogs_ and so, presumably, are no more dangerous to children than any other domestic breed. Very well; wolves are typically very wary of humans and go out of their way to leave us alone, I understand. And if it comes to that, Komodo dragons prey on wild cattle and the like - so no-one’s child is going to be at risk if I take it into my head to keep a Komodo dragon in my garden? [/QUOTE] Well, as I said that’s a whole 'nother thread and I think you are being disingenuous with your comments. I think you are well aware of the risks involved with taking a wild animal (a wolf hybrid is half wild animal, they are not a domesticated breed) and keeping it as a pet. Your Komodo dragon comment must be an attempt at facetiousness because I’m sure you could figure out that reptile does not equal mammal and with the lack of wild prey roaming your back yard your pet Komodo would likely take a bite of the first prey-like thing to come along, most likely you. The discussion of keeping a wild (or half wild) and potentially dangerous animal for a pet is not the same subject as the current discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/245 "2007-01-04T16:00:45Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] .. The discussion of keeping a wild (or half wild) and potentially dangerous animal for a pet is not the same subject as the current discussion. [/QUOTE] Must remember to thoroughly proofread before posting … remove the “and” lest we get back on the “pit bulls are potentially dangerous, too!” thing. I think we’ve already established they are no more potentially dangerous than other _domesticated_ dog breeds. The discussion of keeping a wild (or half wild), potentially dangerous animal for a pet is not the same subject as the current discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/246 "2007-01-04T17:51:29Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Well, please explain what you think the difference is. Of course, we are not talking about individual dogs, but different breeds. [/QUOTE] Has it really come to this? Now that the superior jaw strength of Pits has been debunked, and the extra viciousness of Pits has been debunked, and the request for headlines r.e Goldens has been answered, you hang your hat on whether there is a difference between ‘baseline temperament’ and ‘temperament?’ If it will move things along, even though the two terms are your own, and in my mind, should not need to be explained to you, I will stipulate that they mean the same thing. Or don’t. Whichever you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/247 "2007-01-04T20:46:50Z")
People in the park often let their dogs run loose for exercise. They never do it with little dogs. Poodles are not running loose. It is pitt bulls and labs. I know it is stupid that someone would do it. But it is always a big dog running loose with an owner following saying he never did that before as he fights with my leashed beagle. Yes a beagle could kill. he would lick a kid to death. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/248 "2007-01-04T20:51:15Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Yes a beagle could kill. he would lick a kid to death. [/QUOTE] The comment was “big enough and strong enough to kill a small child.” Try to read more carefully. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/249 "2007-01-04T21:10:20Z")
Coincidentally, this was the headline story of our local newspaper last Friday: > [@](#): > > A Merkel woman was mauled in her home by one of her pit bulls Thursday morning and had both arms amputated as a result of the attack, officials said. > > The 110-pound dog was shot and killed by Merkel Police Chief Bob Jones who arrived at the woman’s home while the attack was in progress. ‘‘That’s the only way he could prevent any further damage,’’ Officer Sid Reyes of the Merkel Police Department said. > > KTXS-TV identified the woman as Vicky Jeffries, who is in her 40’s. She was taken to Hendrick Medical Center, Reyes said. > > The dog apparently turned on Jeffries when she attempted to break up a fight between the full-grown animal and a smaller pit bull, also owned by Jeffries, Reyes said. > > The smaller dog ran out of the house during the shooting and was found a couple of hours later. > > It is being housed at a nearby animal shelter, Reyes said. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/250 "2007-01-04T21:11:28Z")
[Here](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,187122,00.html) is a report concerning the incidence of children sustaining dog bites. Here is their ranking of breeds, from most likely to least. Notice a conspicuous absence? See any beagles? \*Breed by Breed The researchers also checked which dog breeds accounted for the bites and how common those breeds were in the area. Based on those data, they ranked the breeds by risk of dog bite. Here is their list, from highest to lowest risk: German shepherd, Doberman, Spitz, Pekingese, Dachshund, Schnauzer, Collie, Hound dog, Poodle, Rottweiler, Beagle, Terrier, Bernese dog, Labrador retriever, Cross-breed, Spaniel, Shi Tzu, Maltese\* ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/251 "2007-01-04T21:18:21Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] Coincidentally, this was the headline story of our local newspaper last Friday: [/QUOTE] Thanks for providing an excellent opportunity to show how often breeds are mis-identified by the press and the authorities. The American Pit Bull breed standard can be found [here.](http://www.pitbulllovers.com/american-pit-bull-terrier-breed-standard.html) The pertinent part is reproduced here. > [@](#): > > ``` > **Height and Weight** > > ``` > > The American Pit Bull Terrier must be both powerful and agile so actual weight and height are less important than the correct proportion of weight to height. Desirable weight for a mature male in good condition is between 35 and 60 pounds. Desirable weight for a mature female in good condition is between 30 and 50 pounds. Dogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy. The dog in the story is \ ***twice as heavy** \*as the extreme high end for American Pit Bulls. Not a Pit Bull at all. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/252 "2007-01-04T21:32:27Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] The dog in the story is \ ***twice as heavy** \*as the extreme high end for American Pit Bulls. Not a Pit Bull at all. [/QUOTE] But just right for a Presa Canario, which should never be mistaken for any sort of bull terrier. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/253 "2007-01-04T21:45:15Z")
Well, put me in the group of people who can only muster lukewarm sympathy for the owner of a vicious dog when the dog chews the owner’s arms off. On the one hand, no one deserves to have a vicious dog chew their arms off. On the other hand, if anyone deserves to have their arms chewed off by a vicious dog, that person is surely the dog’s owner. And I’m willing to bet $20.00 US that it would turn out that the 110 pound dog was NOT a pit bull, but rather some other breed. Any takers? The only trouble is that there’s probably no way to find out for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/254 "2007-01-04T21:57:05Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] And I’m willing to bet $20.00 US that it would turn out that the 110 pound dog was NOT a pit bull, but rather some other breed. [/QUOTE] See above. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/255 "2007-01-04T21:57:29Z")
And this should happen to anyone who knows they have a vicious dog and does nothing about it. They should be prosecuted. I only wish the dog attacked her instead of her son. > **[Pit Bulls Killed Boy and Mom's on Trial](https://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2207913&page=1)** ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/256 "2007-01-04T22:07:38Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] But just right for a Presa Canario, which should never be mistaken for any sort of bull terrier. [/QUOTE] I would. Mistake them, I mean. As a total non-expert in dog breeding. That is, if the dog in _Veronica Mars_, [Backup,](http://leirion.wordpress.com/files/2006/05/backup2212.jpg) is a “pit bull” as reported, then I think [this Presna](http://www.pitprintsrescue.com/images/breedinfo/presa.jpg) looks enough like him that I might think they were the same breed. They sure look more alike than [these](http://www.valleyviewdogs.com/images/labradoodles/labradoodle-miniature-parti-pinto-03.jpg) [two](http://www.valleyviewdogs.com/images/labradoodles/labradoodle-standard-chocolate-cougar-04.jpg) “labradoodles” (yes, I know they’re not a recognized breed), or [this soft, rounded sweet looking doberman](http://www.mypet.net.au/Jumper%20Doberman.jpg) and [this lean, angular pointy looking one.](http://www.chiots-france.com/Trouver-votre-chiot/De-Rouge-Sang-Doberman-1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/257 "2007-01-04T22:13:17Z")
WhyNot, I doubt if you would mistake them in person. There are a couple of Presa Canario’s that go to the dog park and they’re huge. I can’t imagine how you could mistake the two except in a picture where you couldn’t judge proportion. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/258 "2007-01-04T22:26:28Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I would. Mistake them, I mean. As a total non-expert in dog breeding. That is, if the dog in _Veronica Mars_, [Backup,](http://leirion.wordpress.com/files/2006/05/backup2212.jpg) is a “pit bull” as reported, then I think [this Presna](http://www.pitprintsrescue.com/images/breedinfo/presa.jpg) looks enough like him that I might think they were the same breed. [/QUOTE] One problem there is that Backup changed breeds at one point. [Here’s a typical bull terrier](http://www.bullterrierdallas.com/Articles/cooterBrownPart2_files/image004.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/259 "2007-01-04T22:39:57Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Thanks for providing an excellent opportunity to show how often breeds are mis-identified by the press and the authorities. The American Pit Bull breed standard can be found [here.](http://www.pitbulllovers.com/american-pit-bull-terrier-breed-standard.html) The dog in the story is \ ***twice as heavy** \*as the extreme high end for American Pit Bulls. Not a Pit Bull at all. [/QUOTE] I don’t have a dog in this fight, har har, but that’s not the maximum to minimum weight range for pit bulls: that’s the UKC’s desirable weight range for _dog shows_. If you don’t care about winning best in show, pit bulls range from [22 to 110 pounds](http://doggies.com/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier). ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/260 "2007-01-04T22:46:57Z")
Say ladies, thanks for the complements on Silky. I’ll pass them along, but I doubt she can get any more concieted than she already is. What with all the folks wanting to pet and/or play w/her. Thing is, getting back on-thread, that the onus is on _ME_ as the owner, to decide whether to let others approach her or not. As I said, for the most part, people likely think I’m some sort of a-hole, 'cause I generally discourage said approaches. I know my dog, she’s fairly even-keeled and I, personally, can use her for a pillow if I wanted to. But the point is twofold: she _is_ a Doberman and not a small one at that, and as socialized as she is, I simply don’t _know_ with a 100% certainty how she’ll react to the _kind_ of petting these people have in mind. IOW, too many variables involved. I rather simply play it safe. BTW, I am extremely weary of children around her, for one, because they are prone to do the things Nava said in her post upthread, and secondly, the youngest person she’s really had any interaction with was my own son. And he was already twelve at the time. Not to mention very respectful of her at first as he had his own traumas to get rid of (the bite I wrote about earlier). I think I would have to be some sort of dead-brained imbecile to leave her alone with a small child. I shudder to think what could happen in mere fractions of a second. Lastly, I’d just like to add that this “discussion” is simply ridiculous as it appears that no matter how many facts are revealed showing that any dog can bite/cause harm (proportionate to their size and their victim’s of course) they are some people with their needles stuck on a groove: “Pitbulls are mean killers, pitbulls are mean killers, pitbulls are mean killers, pitbulls are…” Oh well. Ignorance has no bounds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414.md?page=14)