# Pit Bulls. Again and Again and Again...... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414 "2007-01-02T15:02:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/261 "2007-01-04T22:58:18Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] One problem there is that Backup changed breeds at one point. [Here’s a typical bull terrier](http://www.bullterrierdallas.com/Articles/cooterBrownPart2_files/image004.jpg). [/QUOTE] Backup never looked anything like that. I believe the dog in the picture I linked is Backup 2.0, but Backup 1.0 still didn’t look like that little tiny white Spuds MacKenzie dog. I think the problem is that Backup never was a real American Pit Bull Terrier, even though the actors, writers and fans refer to him as one. Backup is like thigh high on Veronica, he’s not a little dog at all. Then again, your picture (wow, that’s one ugly dog!) looks to me much more like this [Dogo Argentino](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b20.jpg) than the [American Pit Bull Terrier](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b13.jpg) identified on the pit bull quiz, so what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/262 "2007-01-04T23:08:08Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Say ladies, thanks for the complements on Silky. [/QUOTE] _cough cough_ 100% blue twisted steel slab sided granite jawed 250 lbs of rompin’ stompin’ Carolina Kickass Man checking in. Seems like I was an admirer as well. And she would luuuuuv me. 'cause that’s the kind of guy I am. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/263 "2007-01-04T23:09:08Z")
RedFury, our best friends had two beautiful dobermans and they’re great dogs. They had a red & black, Monroe & Sinatra. Unfortunately the day after Christmas the female passed away. She had cancer and was getting chemo and went into remission. They were so hopeful but she died of heart failure. I think they’re planning on getting another one, but it’s so hard to lose a pet. They don’t have kids but their dogs were really well socialized. They went to school and had a trainer that came to their house when the dogs were young. They entertain a lot and their dogs are great with kids. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/264 "2007-01-04T23:13:23Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] your picture (wow, that’s one ugly dog!) looks to me much more like this [Dogo Argentino](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b20.jpg) than the [American Pit Bull Terrier](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b13.jpg) identified on the pit bull quiz, so what do I know? [/QUOTE] Well, although there is an American Pit Bull Terrier breed, the term “pit bull” can apply to other terriers–which contributes to the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![blackhobyah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blackhobyah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blackhobyah)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/265 "2007-01-04T23:13:48Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Then again, your picture (wow, that’s one ugly dog!) looks to me much more like this [Dogo Argentino](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b20.jpg) than the [American Pit Bull Terrier](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b13.jpg) identified on the pit bull quiz, so what do I know? [/QUOTE] The dog in the picture (not Backup, the white dog) is an [English Bull Terrier](http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/index.cfm). Of all the breeds one of the most distinctive with their noble, Roman noses and enthusiastic personalities. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/266 "2007-01-04T23:16:52Z")
[QUOTE=blackhobyah] The dog in the picture (not Backup, the white dog) is an [English Bull Terrier](http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/index.cfm). Of all the breeds one of the most distinctive with their noble, Roman noses and enthusiastic personalities. [/QUOTE] I believe that’s what [Spuds](http://www.nikentertainment.com/images/walloffameimages/SpudsMackenzie.html) was. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/267 "2007-01-04T23:20:38Z")
OK, so basically we’ve spent 266 posts talking about a gazillion different kinds of dogs, and no one knows what the hell kind of dog might have or might not have attacked anyone when a newspaper or even the CDC reports a “pit bull” bite. Great. I feel so enlightened. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/268 "2007-01-04T23:30:52Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] I don’t have a dog in this fight, har har, but that’s not the maximum to minimum weight range for pit bulls: that’s the UKC’s desirable weight range for _dog shows_. If you don’t care about winning best in show, pit bulls range from [22 to 110 pounds](http://doggies.com/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier). [/QUOTE] That is a … strangely large range. More reasonable info here. [http://www.ioeba.net/ioebaAPBTbreedstandard.htm](http://www.ioeba.net/ioebaAPBTbreedstandard.htm) [http://www.arba.org/AmericanPitBull1BS.htm](http://www.arba.org/AmericanPitBull1BS.htm) [http://www.pitbullsoforegon.com/standards.html](http://www.pitbullsoforegon.com/standards.html) [http://www.badrap.org/rescue/breed.cfm](http://www.badrap.org/rescue/breed.cfm) [http://www.realpitbull.com/id.html](http://www.realpitbull.com/id.html) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/269 "2007-01-04T23:33:16Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] OK, so basically we’ve spent 266 posts talking about a gazillion different kinds of dogs, and no one knows what the hell kind of dog might have or might not have attacked anyone when a newspaper or even the CDC reports a “pit bull” bite. [/QUOTE] Basically, yeah. Not even [Petey](http://www.carpenoctem.tv/haunt/ca/img/petey.jpg), perhaps the most famous “pit bull” that ever lived, has been positively identified as belonging to any particular breed. The UKC says American Pit but the AKC says Staffordshire. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/270 "2007-01-04T23:39:55Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] OK, so basically we’ve spent 266 posts talking about a gazillion different kinds of dogs, and no one knows what the hell kind of dog might have or might not have attacked anyone when a newspaper or even the CDC reports a “pit bull” bite. Great. I feel so enlightened. :smack: [/QUOTE] No fucking shit. Just don’t tell **Magellan.** Wouldn’t wanna rock his world. He’s still in denial about your Golden cites. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/271 "2007-01-05T00:04:14Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] That is a … strangely large range. More reasonable info here. [/quote] Yes, but those are breeding standards, ideal ranges for breeders to shoot for to raise show dogs, as per the addendum “[d]ogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy.” 30 to 60 pounds is the ideal range if you want to enter a dog show, but that doesn’t mean they don’t come any larger. Admittedly, if a pit is that massive there’s a chance his bloodline was cross-bred with a mastiff somewhere in the past, but even purebred strains climb into the 90 pound range pretty regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/272 "2007-01-05T00:07:15Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] Yes, but those are breeding standards, ideal ranges for breeders to shoot for to raise show dogs, as per the addendum “[d]ogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy.” 30 to 60 pounds is the ideal range if you want to enter a dog show, but that doesn’t mean they don’t come any larger. Admittedly, if a pit is that massive there’s a chance his bloodline was cross-bred with a mastiff somewhere in the past, but even purebred strains climb into the 90 pound range pretty regularly. [/QUOTE] I have no idea why you insist on the ‘show dog’ delineation. Can you elaborate? Can you provide another example of a breed standard where the upper limit is nearly 500% of the lower? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/273 "2007-01-05T00:15:19Z")
Contrapuntual, my apologies, no disrespect meant. Besides, on the internets we are all neutered/spayed. 🙂 BTW, just by reading your posts – and some of the others – I feel pretty safe in saying that yeah, Silky would have a blast with you. Almosts feels like I can “smell” a genuine dog-person even through a monitor. * * * Caridwen, That sucks. Truth is, Dobies are not the sturdiest of dogs when it comes to health issues/life-expentancy. So far – knock on wood – other than a [broken leg](http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8782/p1010010sd3.jpg), due to her own rambunctious nature as a pup, she’s been golden. Recovered in a month like it never happened; fast as a Greyhound – which as I am sure you know is also part of the cocktail a Doberman is. As for more training, I guess it’s never enough. But since the only little kids she ever really interacts with are strangers (and she does bark a them – guess she hasn’t quite figured out what they are) I’m not sure I’m going to go looking for volunteers. Suffice it to say that as long as I am around around she won’t be off leash in any cincumstance I find merely “shady.” ---
**Author:** ![blackhobyah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blackhobyah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blackhobyah)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/274 "2007-01-05T00:20:09Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] OK, so basically we’ve spent 266 posts talking about a gazillion different kinds of dogs, and no one knows what the hell kind of dog might have or might not have attacked anyone when a newspaper or even the CDC reports a “pit bull” bite. [/QUOTE] Pretty much. There was a case in Sydney last year where a child was bitten by a dog, identified in the media as a Pit Bull, although the dog was actually an English Bull Terrier. [This site](http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/MistakenIdentity/WrongId.htm) has a number of other instances where the dogs involved were misidentified as Pits, even where they were dogs (such as Bullmastiffs) which look nothing like Pits, even to a complete novice at identifying dogs breeds. Many States in Australia have enacted breed specific legislation aimed at Pit Bulls, although the dogs which rank highest in bite statistics over here are the Australian Cattle Dog and the German Shepherd. I’ve quoted [this article](http://www.dapbt.org/collier.htm) above, but it’s worth mentioning again, it covers a lot of the issues discussed in this thread. He concludes, “What emerges clearly from analysis of available data is the fact that attacks are committed by a small proportion of individuals of any breed.” ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/275 "2007-01-05T00:21:22Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Basically, yeah. Not even [Petey](http://www.carpenoctem.tv/haunt/ca/img/petey.jpg), perhaps the most famous “pit bull” that ever lived, has been positively identified as belonging to any particular breed. The UKC says American Pit but the AKC says Staffordshire. [/QUOTE] The AKC never recognized “pit bull” as a legitimate breed due to the dogfighting stigma. Dog fighters, wanting to register their dogs and keep track of the pedigrees, formed the ADBA, which functioned as a pit bull registry only for many years. The ADBA created the American Staffordshire Terrier breed for Pete the pup since he was probably the most popular movie dog at the time after Rin Tin Tin and Strongheart (both GSDs) and opened their stud books. Very few dogfighters cared about dog shows and fighting dogs don’t often have the temperment necessary for shows so not many pits were registered with the AKC. The UKC was created later for working dogs & field trials & agility competitions which show on OLN, One of the few TV shows [my boy](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/bmax/GenghisSmile.jpg) will watch for any amount of time. I know a family who breeds dogs that are triple registered: American Staffordshire Terrier (amstaff) with the AKC, & registered as APBT with the ADBA & UKC. Beautiful animals. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/276 "2007-01-05T00:23:06Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I have no idea why you insist on the ‘show dog’ delineation. Can you elaborate? Can you provide another example of a breed standard where the upper limit is nearly 500% of the lower? [/QUOTE] As a disinterested observer, I sumbit that 22 pounds is the weight of a puppy. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/277 "2007-01-05T00:25:12Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] Yes, but those are breeding standards, ideal ranges for breeders to shoot for to raise show dogs, as per the addendum “[d]ogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy.” 30 to 60 pounds is the ideal range if you want to enter a dog show, but that doesn’t mean they don’t come any larger. Admittedly, if a pit is that massive there’s a chance his bloodline was cross-bred with a mastiff somewhere in the past, but even purebred strains climb into the 90 pound range pretty regularly. [/QUOTE] Sound to me that if a dog strays that far off from his breed standards, odds are better than good it’s not a purebreed. Look-up “Warlock Doberman’s” to see what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/278 "2007-01-05T00:31:54Z")
[QUOTE=BMax] The AKC never recognized “pit bull” as a legitimate breed due to the dogfighting stigma. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I know. It’s just another source for the confusion regarding what exactly is a pit bull. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/279 "2007-01-05T00:40:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] As a disinterested observer, I sumbit that 22 pounds is the weight of a puppy. [/QUOTE] At what age? Breed standards refer to adult dogs. With puppies, it is difficult to tell how they will develop. Responsible breeders abandon lines that produce non-standard issue. Often, a dog or bitch is 3 or 4 years old before faults manifest. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414/280 "2007-01-05T00:46:26Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] At what age? [/QUOTE] Hell if I know. Just throwing out a suggestion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-again-and-again-and-again/386414.md?page=15)