# Pit Bulls (continued) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714 "2013-10-08T19:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/341 "2013-12-19T20:19:54Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > So when will it be “your time”? 4:20 pm. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/342 "2013-12-20T15:09:51Z")
[Here](http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/MistakenIdentity/WrongId.htm) are some anecdotes to counter **Cougar** ’s ‘evidence’ against ‘pit bulls’. Gee, misidentifications by the police, media, witnesses, etc. up the wazoo… Suck it up, Sunshine! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/343 "2013-12-20T15:19:45Z")
Too late to edit: toward the bottom of my link, you will find a ‘pit bull’ that turned out to be a fucking _raccoon_. Yeah, they _always_ get the breed right? They can’t even get the goddamn _species_ right. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nauplius/32/51_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/344 "2013-12-20T16:21:18Z")
Did you even read the raccoon story? It doesn’t mention a pit bull anywhere in it. As a matter of fact the only place it even mentions the word dog is in the headline which I suspect was just a mistake by some editor. The raccoon was not misidentified by the victim or authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/345 "2013-12-20T16:47:12Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > Did you even read the raccoon story? It doesn’t mention a pit bull anywhere in it. I don’t see how that’s relevant. **cougar** does the same thing in reverse. What’s good for the goose, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/346 "2013-12-20T17:12:52Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > Did you even read the raccoon story? It doesn’t mention a pit bull anywhere in it. As a matter of fact the only place it even mentions the word dog is in the headline which I suspect was just a mistake by some editor. The raccoon was not misidentified by the victim or authorities. Yep, headline. ‘Some [idiot] editor’ can’t even read the goddamn police report, or his own goddamn reporter’s story, but points at dogs as the perp in his headline. Do you _really_ trust the rest of what they said, when even the fucking _editor_ can’t be arsed to _read_ the story his reporter wrote? I hope you realize that in the news business, the ‘some editor’ is the goddamn fucking _ **boss** _? And is, therefore, _responsible_ for what goes out? That was extremely shitty journalism. The same sort of shitty journalism that **Cougar** has been presenting as ‘evidence’ of ‘pit bull’ mayhem, all along. ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/347 "2013-12-20T17:54:49Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > Very interesting comment. > > FYI regarding the latest pit bull fatal, where the woman was killed last Friday by her own pit bull that she owned for the past 4 years, they just interviewed her boyfriend. > > His words echo what you just stated: > > [http://www.krqe.com/news/local/victims-boyfriend-calls-pit-bull-mauling-a-freak-accident](http://www.krqe.com/news/local/victims-boyfriend-calls-pit-bull-mauling-a-freak-accident) > > “According to Hare, he and Nelson had possession of the dogs for about the last four years” > > "It’s really hard to lose five family members in one day basically, because they were our children for years and years,” said Hare. > > Hare says he was in a relationship with Nelson for the last 15 years. In that time, Hare says the two raised more than 300 animals on their property, not for profit or under the name of any rescue, but out of their own desire. > > Deputies say four other pit bulls were surrendered from the property and have since been euthanized > > “We did it together because it what’s made our family strong,” said Hare. > > Deputies have confirmed all the animals on the property were healthy and showed no signs of abuse. Hare says the incident is an unexpected tragedy. > > “There was nobody happier in this world. She could brighten anybody’s day and she always did. Didn’t matter who it was, somebody could be having the worst day and she would just make them smile and they would never forget it,” said Hare. > > “This was something that came completely out of left field and it was … it was her time as horrible and tragic as it was, it was,” said Hare. > > So when will it be “your time”? Today we woke up at around our normal time. Trogdor and Chloe hate the cold up here in Michigan so our outside time was extremely short. Poor Trogdor has so little hair that he gets instantly cold. The baby had bacon and eggs for breakfast which means that the dogs had fun on cleanup duty. We have been working on making the dogs lay on the couch in the other room while she eats and only getting scraps on the OK command. Its been a bit of a tough haul but they are starting to get the point. Charlotte has been obsessed with grabbing tails lately. Trogdor doesn’t get it as bad because he is an old man and almost never leaves the couch. Chloe bless her heart just stands there looking confused until we rescue her. We have been trying to teach the baby not to grab tails but she is a stubborn little snot. Her other current disgusting habit is giving Chloe “kisses” which consists of her opening her mouth and letting Chloe lick her. So gross, we scold both of them when it happens but neither seem to care. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/348 "2013-12-22T05:14:07Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > Did you even read the raccoon story? It doesn’t mention a pit bull anywhere in it. As a matter of fact the only place it even mentions the word dog is in the headline which I suspect was just a mistake by some editor. The raccoon was not misidentified by the victim or authorities. Congrats! You actually read the links, and saw them for what they were. You are a nutters 2nd worse nightmare. 1st = tomorrows headlines. There was also one that was relating to a Rottweiler that was mistaken for another breed. Unrelated to pit bulls. And countless others where the media had it wrong, then corrected it. The first two links are redundant; they link to the same story. Clever attempt to rack up the count - only works when people (unlike you) actually read the links. Then there’s the Arizona November 2007 fatal: that story was corrected by the media (how could that possibly be? I thought there was a media conspiracy out for pit bulls???) It was recorded as an American Bulldog in the tally for 2007: > **[2007 Dog Bite Fatality: Tori Whitehurst, Killed by an Adopted Out American...](https://blog.dogsbite.org/2007/11/tori-whitehurst-killed-by-familys.html)** > > Adopted Dog Kills Child Phoenix, AZ -A 4-year old died after being attacked by her family's American bulldog. Tori Whitehurst was airlifted to a hospital in Phoenix, but did not survive. The attack happened just before 4 pm at the PS worth noting, this American Bulldog was adopted out by the AZ Humane Society after it passed the ATTS temperament test by 3 behavioral experts, just 7 months prior: [http://www.azhumane.org/PDFs/newsroom/110607AHSStatementonDogInvolvedinFatalMauling.pdf](http://www.azhumane.org/PDFs/newsroom/110607AHSStatementonDogInvolvedinFatalMauling.pdf) March 17, 2007 Friendswood, TX – Catahoula / American Bulldog or Pit Bull? They cite three media reports; none have a photo, and in true NCRC National Canine Research Council guidelines, no one has the breed documents – so what makes them think the Catahoula Bulldog version over the pit bull version is more accurate? The NCRC 100% excluded all claims of pit bull fatals due to not having breed documents; yet, in this case, whats good for the goose isn’t good for the gander. Yes, its a classic case of having their cake & eating it, too. The article claiming it was a Catahoula Bulldog, cites a police officer as the source…yet any other time a cop ID’s a dog as a pit, nutters say police officers are not trained to ID a breed. Note that the victim was also bitten at least once by her Golden Retriever – and [DogsBite.org](http://DogsBite.org) counted the Golden as one of 2 dogs that killed the owner. **29 of the 31 fatals in 2013 were by pits; even if they were split 9 ways, they would still outnumber the fatals by all 300 other breeds of canines…COMBINED** 379 humans have been killed by pit bulls since 1844. > **[U.S. Fatal Pit Bull Attacks - The Archival Record - DogsBite.org](https://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/)** > > An archive of U.S. fatal pit bull attacks from 1833 to December 2024 by DogsBite.org - Fatal Pit Bull Attacks - The Archival Record That works out to 3 per year. 2013 will end with 30 in one year. 65% of the pit bull attacks resulting in someone being killed or maimed during the past 30 years have occurred during the past 10 years. 39% of the pit bull attacks resulting in someone being killed or maimed during the past 30 years have occurred during the past four years alone. 14% of the total attacks occurred in the last year alone, and 26% in the past two years. 61% of the pit bull attacks on children have occurred in the past 10 years; 37% in the past four years; 24% in the past two years. 65% of the pit bull attacks on adults have occurred in the past 10 years; 39% in the past four years; 27% in the past two years. 71% of the pit bull fatalities have occurred in the past 10 years; 42% in the past four years; 24% in the past two years. 66% of the pit bull disfigurements have occurred in the past 10 years; 41% in the past four years; 29% in the past two years. These cumulative trends are not within the possibilities of chance. They show a situation which has slipped out of any semblance of control, even compared to the situation of 10 years ago. Pits are exponentially ahead of all other canines in fatals and maimings: > **[dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2012.pdf](https://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2012.pdf)** I am not all all impressed that a very small handful were INITIALLY reported as another type of canine (the cases highlighted reference American Bulldogs, and there is considerable history that Bulldogs = pit bulls; in fact they were included in Ohio’s statewide BSL) > **[Is an american bulldog a pit bull?](http://cravendesires.blogspot.com/2011/02/is-american-bulldog-pit-bull.html)** > > fuzupf and fuzzy logic fuzupf's panties are in a bunch because someone in missouri called an american bulldog a pit bull. according to ... ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/349 "2013-12-22T05:41:26Z")
How do you identify a dog as a Pitbull without bread documentation? We’ve asked you multiple times to identify a trait unique to pitbuls that does not exist in other breads. Is there a magic eats baby gene they have that others don’t have? ---
**Author:** ![all\_timestamps\_displayed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/958977/32.png) [@all\_timestamps\_displayed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/all_timestamps_displayed)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/350 "2013-12-22T06:18:17Z")
Wow, cougar58 is owning this thread. The rest of you have been reduced to snide shit and cheerleading. The tone on either side makes it pretty fucking clear how things are going. I keep seeing “anecdotes aren’t data” - actually a shitload of data is just anecdotes in aggregate. Anyways, as always fuck the people who made fighting dogs. What a fucking abomination. Dogs aren’t supposed to fight to the death like that. Time to breed them out. And if your kids are playing with fighting dogs, give your fucking head a shake. Before your dog gives theirs one. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/351 "2013-12-22T06:47:31Z")
> [@all\_timestamps\_displayed](#): > > Wow, cougar58 is owning this thread. Since when does endless [goalpost](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16927662&postcount=308) [moving](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16929503&postcount=325) = “owning”? > [@](#): > > I keep seeing “anecdotes aren’t data” - actually a shitload of data is just anecdotes in aggregate. “Just”? A shitload of data is scientific in nature whereas anecdotes are just stories that tend to be [fallacious](http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/53-argument-from-hearsay). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/352 "2013-12-22T07:03:43Z")
On the subject of fallacies, I see a bunch of dogs [missing their midsection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma) in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/353 "2013-12-22T11:22:52Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > How do you identify a dog as a Pitbull without bread documentation? Check to see if it asks for white or whole wheat? > [@boytyperanma](#): > > We’ve asked you multiple times to identify a trait unique to pitbuls that does not exist in other breads. Is there a magic eats baby gene they have that others don’t have? Good question. I don’t know. Do I need to know? It’s clear that pit bulls account for the vast majority of cases where people were chewed to death - or are you even disputing that? Or can point to some other clearly identifiable reason why pit bulls account for the majority of chewed-to-death cases despite only accounting for 4-5% of the US doggie population? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/354 "2013-12-22T11:58:18Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Good question. I don’t know. Do I need to know? :eek:😕:rolleyes::mad: Do you know what website you are on? We are here to fight ignorance, not celebrate it. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/355 "2013-12-22T17:33:21Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > :eek:😕:rolleyes::mad: > > Do you know what website you are on? We are here to fight ignorance, not celebrate it. I’m saying that the data is clear: pit-types account for the vast majority of dog bite fatalities in the US despite accounting for only 4-5% of the population. Unless you can give me a reason why pit-types are somehow \*safer \*relative to other breeds despite this track record, I’m going to continue assuming they are shitty dogs and/or they have shitty owners. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/356 "2013-12-23T04:19:14Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I’m saying that the data is clear: pit-types account for the vast majority of dog bite fatalities in the US despite accounting for only 4-5% of the population. Unless you can give me a reason why pit-types are somehow \*safer \*relative to other breeds despite this track record, I’m going to continue assuming they are shitty dogs and/or they have shitty owners. the data is not clear, it is not even close to clear, just because people say the words it was a pit bull does not make it a pit bull. The coug is unsalvageable at this point. Let me help you out before you reach that level of stupid. Read [This story about media bias](http://voices.yahoo.com/national-canine-research-council-reveals-biased-media-513350.html) Then read [This one about confirmation bias](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) and then maybe you will begin to see why no one is buying this line of bulllshit. Being another unskeptical idiot on this message board will cause you a lot of grief, educate yourself just a bit and see if it doesn’t make you feel all shiny and shit. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/357 "2013-12-23T06:46:54Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > the data is not clear, it is not even close to clear, just because people say the words it was a pit bull does not make it a pit bull. Please cite the cases where a dog that chewed someone to death was mistakenly identified as a pit bull type dog. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/358 "2013-12-23T17:00:52Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Please cite the cases where a dog that chewed someone to death was mistakenly identified as a pit bull type dog. Who’s responsible for telling these families they have a pit bull in the first place? [Some shelter worker?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16929410&postcount=320) ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/359 "2013-12-23T18:14:28Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Who’s responsible for telling these families they have a pit bull in the first place? [Some shelter worker?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16929410&postcount=320) Then you should have no problem in pulling up cites for cases where dogs that chewed kids to death were incorrectly identified as pits. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/360 "2013-12-23T20:56:42Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > continue assuming they are shitty dogs and/_ **or they have shitty owners.** _ Go right ahead… that has been the basic argument with cougar… is it the dogs, or the people who choose them? If you are ok with laying blame where it rightly belongs, which is at the feet of the people who choose them for the wrong reasons and then treat them in ways that are likely to lead to violence, then we have no quarrel. Because that has always been the fact, whether it was German Shepherds, Rottweilers, or pit bulls. Incidentally, pit bulls have risen to the top 5 among popular dogs in this country, which is exactly why we see more pit bull attacks. Same as GSD attacks rose when their numbers rose, ditto Rottys. > **[U.S. love for pit bulls, bigger than you thought](http://badrap-blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/us-love-for-pit-bulls-bigger-than-you.html)** > > Banfield Pet Hospitals - the largest veterinary clinic chain in the world - wants us to know that the popularity of dogs described as pi... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714.md?page=19)