# Pit Bulls (continued) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714 "2013-10-08T19:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/441 "2013-12-30T20:08:43Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > okay, I will allow you to dispose of cocker spaniels and boxers, too. I bet the boxer did the most damage and that if the bites had been by a pit bull type dog, the man would have been killed. The man _was_ killed. And it _was_ the boxer whose bites were his proximate cause of death. But I bet you didn’t read the link, did you. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The fucking idiot got in the middle of a dog fight between his boxer and his cocker spaniel and tried to break it up. When you do that, there are pretty good odds _you_ are going to get seriously bitten. And if your bites are serious enough or in the right place, for instance opening an artery, you’re going to fucking _die_. Who _does_ that shit? Idiots who have no business owning those dogs. And I’ll bet you that wasn’t the first time his boxer exhibited dog-aggressive behavior, but he kept it with a cocker spaniel anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/442 "2013-12-30T20:20:35Z")
For fuck’s sake don’t use the quote button if you’re not intelligent enough to use it correctly. Idiot. [QUOTE=Shayna] Pit Bulls are treated that way all the time. How do you not see that those conditions contribute heavily in the statistics of fatal Pit Bull maulings? [/QUOTE] But, but but…Stoid insisted that “Bully breeds had pawed their way into people’s hearts over the past decade” because they were just the sweetest, bestest dog ever!!! Just puppies and unicorns and rainbows. :rolleyes: Do a search for golden retrieve rescue; they are always overflowing with abused, abandoned and mis-treated goldens. Oddly enough, you don’t hear about these abused goldens chewing little kids up by the dozen. Wonder why. > [@Stoid](#): > > No reports of the cocker participating in the attack on the two people; they were trying to break up a fight between the two dogs when it happened, and it’s a fair bet the boxer was kicking the cocker’s ass. How can you say such a mean thing! Blame the deed, not the breed! The boxer was the sweetest gentlest doggie evar! ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/443 "2013-12-30T20:30:47Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > For fuck’s sake don’t use the quote button if you’re not intelligent enough to use it correctly. Idiot. > > But, but but…Stoid insisted that “Bully breeds had pawed their way into people’s hearts over the past decade” because they were just the sweetest, bestest dog ever!!! Just puppies and unicorns and rainbows. > > :rolleyes: > > Do a search for golden retrieve rescue; they are always overflowing with abused, abandoned and mis-treated goldens. Oddly enough, you don’t hear about these abused goldens chewing little kids up by the dozen. Wonder why. > > How can you say such a mean thing! Blame the deed, not the breed! The boxer was the sweetest gentlest doggie evar! You’re too fucking stupid to debate with anymore. You can’t seem to grasp various different concepts all at the same time, like the fact that Pit Bulls have grown in popularity because they are generally people-loving, friendly dogs, but that doesn’t mean that a good number of Pit Bull owners aren’t still treating them as badly as they’ve historically been treated. Or that often labradors and goldens are abused or mistreated, but they aren’t abused, mistreated, isolated in cages in back yards, while having been kept intact, and put into situations where adults were not able to control them _all at the same fucking time._ You are exactly the kind of stupid asshole with not a lick of dog behavior understanding who has no business owning a Pit Bull. Yet stupid assholes like you all over the country own Pit Bulls. I feel sorry for those poor dogs. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/444 "2013-12-30T20:54:34Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You’re too fucking stupid to debate with anymore. You can’t seem to grasp various different concepts all at the same time, like the fact that Pit Bulls have grown in popularity because they are generally people-loving, friendly dogs, but that doesn’t mean that a good number of Pit Bull owners aren’t still treating them as badly as they’ve historically been treated. Or that often labradors and goldens are abused or mistreated, but they aren’t abused, mistreated, isolated in cages in back yards, while having been kept intact, and put into situations where adults were not able to control them _all at the same fucking time._ > > You are exactly the kind of stupid asshole with not a lick of dog behavior understanding who has no business owning a Pit Bull. Yet stupid assholes like you all over the country own Pit Bulls. > > I feel sorry for those poor dogs. What you seem incapable of grasping is that the great majority of pit bull owners are completely inept, by your standard, of training and managing a dog that by every measure of breed proclivity, is dangerous. It takes an owner of unusual skill and intelligence to properly manage a pit bull. You are the one saying that, and thus excusing the nature of the dog… I don’t see how, under your standards, we can expect pit bulls to be generally regarded as safe. Why should we? It takes an expert trainer to keep them from doing damage and not every owner could possibly be expected to have that sort of skill… why do you have so much trouble acknowledging that it isn’t a good idea to let anyone ‘adopt’ or ‘own’ this dog without multiple certifications? I don’t want them in my neighborhood, they are just too likely to be a dog not owned by a ‘good’ owner. There is no way for me to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/445 "2013-12-30T21:11:05Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > What you seem incapable of grasping is that the great majority of pit bull owners are completely inept, by your standard, of training and managing a dog that by every measure of breed proclivity, is dangerous. It takes an owner of unusual skill and intelligence to properly manage a pit bull. You are the one saying that, and thus excusing the nature of the dog… > > I don’t see how, under your standards, we can expect pit bulls to be generally regarded as safe. Why should we? It takes an expert trainer to keep them from doing damage and not every owner could possibly be expected to have that sort of skill… why do you have so much trouble acknowledging that it isn’t a good idea to let anyone ‘adopt’ or ‘own’ this dog without multiple certifications? I don’t want them in my neighborhood, they are just too likely to be a dog not owned by a ‘good’ owner. There is no way for me to tell. No I fucking didn’t say that, and no that’s not what you can expect. It takes owners who understand the capabilities of this breed and are able to handle these dogs, won’t leave them outside in a cage, will keep them inside as a pet, will not leave a two-year-old child unattended with them the same way they wouldn’t leave a two-year-old child unattended next to a 5-gallon bucket of water, who will exercise them regularly with walks and play time, will socialize them early with other dogs, will obedience train them to follow verbal commands, and all the other normal and ordinary things responsible pet owners should do. Pit Bulls raised in that environment aren’t going to randomly attack and kill people. How do I know that? The studies of the circumstances surrounding the 256 fatal attacks over a 9-year period _prove_ that. If you still choose to disbelieve these rather simple facts, you’re a damn fool idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/446 "2013-12-30T21:53:24Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You’re too fucking stupid to debate with anymore. You can’t seem to grasp various different concepts all at the same time Or we have another argument reduced to trolling. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/447 "2013-12-30T23:24:24Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > okay, I will allow you to dispose of cocker spaniels and boxers, too. I bet the boxer did the most damage and that if the bites had been by a pit bull type dog, the man would have been killed. I think this quote sums up **Crucible** ’s commitment to fighting ignorance. He’s responding to an article in which the man _was killed_. When cites are available he can’t even bother to read them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/448 "2013-12-30T23:51:32Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > [http://azstarnet.com/news/state-and-regional/arizona-man-fatally-mauled-by-dog-was-teacher/article\_265b0b5a-4761-5109-8dbe-96e135936001.html](http://azstarnet.com/news/state-and-regional/arizona-man-fatally-mauled-by-dog-was-teacher/article_265b0b5a-4761-5109-8dbe-96e135936001.html) > > Near here a man was just when mauled by his two dogs. One was a boxer and one a cocker spaniel. He was mauled by his “boxer” who was mauling his cocker spaniel prior to the intervention. Boxers seem to be closely related to Pits in body style and facial features and there are plenty of pits and pit crosses that can pass for a boxer. But good for you. You now have one anecdote in favour of the argument that boxers maul their owners just like pits. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/449 "2013-12-31T00:01:41Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > No, I have not. And I’ve taken a Husky/Smoyan/GSD mix for walks when I was a teen. That dog could knock me over if she wanted to. > > Any owner who allows their dog to break free has an improperly trained dog and/or is an improperly prepared owner. My little schnauzer has at least twice this year yanked the leash right out of my hand. Sorry, but I can’t seem to help it. Should I take him to the pound for adoption since I’m clearly not fit to look after my dog ? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/450 "2013-12-31T00:06:36Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Firstly, just to clear the waters, I would not propose killing any dogs currently living, unless of course they had attacked someone. I would call for the same outcome for \*\*any \*\*individual dog, regardless of breed. Again, first define a pitbull. > [@](#): > > I just don’t get why people like yourself (who are otherwise normal and decent folk) get all pissy about their precious pitbulls… 'T’ain’t me. I literally don’t have a dog in this fight. My dogs are a fraidy cat Corgi/Lab (maybe) that I’m careful with around strangers and two vicious, bloodthirsty ratters of Westie/Shih Tzu heritage. Maybe. My granddogs are a Basset/English Bulldog (maybe) and a Bull Terrier that is probably full-blooded but doesn’t have papers. That’s the thing–most dogs don’t have papers, so how can you be sure of their “heritage?” > [@](#): > > Seriously, grow a fucking brain. :rolleyes: I’ll thank you not to take that tone with me. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/451 "2013-12-31T00:07:16Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > For fuck’s sake don’t use the quote button if you’re not intelligent enough to use it correctly. Idiot. > > But, but but…Stoid insisted that “Bully breeds had pawed their way into people’s hearts over the past decade” because they were just the sweetest, bestest dog ever!!! Just puppies and unicorns and rainbows. > > :rolleyes: > > How can you say such a mean thing! Blame the deed, not the breed! The boxer was the sweetest gentlest doggie evar! It sucks when there’s no credible way to backup your prejudice and you’re left with nothing but impotent snark. My sympathies. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/452 "2013-12-31T00:12:14Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > It takes an owner of unusual skill and intelligence to properly manage a pit bull. You are the one saying that, and thus excusing the nature of the dog… > > I don’t see how, under your standards, we can expect pit bulls to be generally regarded as safe. Why should we? It takes an expert trainer to keep them from doing damage and not every owner could possibly be expected to have that sort of skill… Please quote the parts of Shayna’s posts that you think describe “expert” abilities that represent an unreasonable standard of care for a powerful canine living among human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/453 "2013-12-31T00:35:51Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > My little schnauzer has at least twice this year yanked the leash right out of my hand. > > Sorry, but I can’t seem to help it. Should I take him to the pound for adoption since I’m clearly not fit to look after my dog ? There’s that [excluded middle](http://www.perfectpaws.com/leash.html) again. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/454 "2013-12-31T00:45:59Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Or we have another argument reduced to trolling. Truth. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/455 "2013-12-31T01:55:27Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > My little schnauzer has at least twice this year yanked the leash right out of my hand. > > Sorry, but I can’t seem to help it. Should I take him to the pound for adoption since I’m clearly not fit to look after my dog ? You actually aren’t fit to control your dog, since you’ve at least twice been unable to. And your yappy little dog breed has a high propensity to attack what they see as small animal prey, killing anything from rats to cats. It is entirely your responsibility to keep your dog fully in your control at all times. Either train your dog to obey you while on a leash or get a [better leash/harness](http://www.amazon.com/Premier-Gentle-Leader-Collar-Medium/dp/B00074L4RW/)/[collar system](http://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Dog-Collar-Leash-Set/dp/B0051B68PY/) that will allow you to control your damn dog. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/456 "2013-12-31T02:07:22Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > My little schnauzer has at least twice this year yanked the leash right out of my hand. > > Sorry, but I can’t seem to help it. Should I take him to the pound for adoption since I’m clearly not fit to look after my dog ? I’m glad your willing to admit you have trouble controlling your schnauzer and would consider taking him to the pound rather than calling for everybody’s schnauzers be put down because you’re afraid they can’t control theirs. That would be a rather ridiculous stance to take don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/457 "2013-12-31T04:13:36Z")
Leave the shanauzers and aussies out of it!!😃[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/Jupe/TruckinDogFlood02a.jpg](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/Jupe/TruckinDogFlood02a.jpg) these were my dogs RIP (still have 3)… I have also owned and cared forlots of other breeds…the thing about lets just say “strong” dogs…is that when something happens, which may be out of the owners control…broken gate, broken leash, you know, “shit happens” type of problems…large strong dogs are just hard to deal with. We had some sweet rotties for some years, and had, in general, ok luck with them, but just barely. They were hand raised, and sweet, but jeez, you know, they were bred as protectors, and sometimes, they just had to protect…so we always had to be on guard. I have always felt it really is an owner/breed mismatch, and given the numbers of people who own larger, “stronger” dogs, the chances are really high for bad matchups, bad owners… I dont really have a solution, but it certainly isnt the dogs fault… ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/458 "2013-12-31T04:46:02Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I think this quote sums up **Crucible** ’s commitment to fighting ignorance. He’s responding to an article in which the man _was killed_. > > When cites are available he can’t even bother to read them. You know, if the story had anything to do with my argument or refuted it in any way, or even supported your argument in any way, I might have read it. the fact is, you already told us a boxer and a spaniel had attacked someone. The nature of the injury doesn’t change my position. Large dogs of all kinds, capable of killing humans, should be eliminated. dogs aren’t people, and folks who think of them as members of their family forgive too much of the grief they cause. Every wonderful thing posited for pits or boxers or whatever animal that is known to attack and kill people, especially those responsible for over 50% of such attacks that cause death or maiming? All those wonderful things can be done by much more gentle, smaller dogs. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/459 "2013-12-31T05:11:13Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > if the bites had been by a pit bull type dog, the man would have been killed. > [@crucible](#): > > The nature of the injury doesn’t change my position Your position appeared to be the man lived because he was not attacked by a ‘pit bull type dog’ Banning all large dogs is at least a definable objective. That’s a hell of a lot better than lets ban this one breed of dog with no single trait that can be uniquely identified. Pick a weight limit and go with it I guess. I doubt you’ll find popular support but maybe with enough campaigning you’ll get there. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/460 "2013-12-31T05:55:42Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > … That’s a hell of a lot better than lets ban this one breed of dog with no single trait that can be uniquely identified. Technically, “Pit Bull” isn’t even a breed, it’s a nickname for a variety of dogs that were once used to bait bulls and bears in pits in England, and can be any number of different breeds from the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier to a host of other dogs of similar look and stature. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714.md?page=24)