# Pit Bulls (continued) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714 "2013-10-08T19:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/701 "2014-01-07T21:24:34Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > And here is her original statment to Seattle Animal Control: > > No mention of her passing or stopping as in the police report. > > No mention of the walker losing her grip on the leash in either report, not until nearly three years after the fact: > > As noted earlier, a real dog bite expert declared that there were no dragging nor shaking injuries to her arm. She continually embellishes her story and we’re supposed to believe her story that the dog caused a (as in one, not two) fracture in her arm? :dubious: What we are to believe, is the police report: It states: Fractured right arm. 5 puncture wounds to top of right arm. 2 puncture wounds to bottom of right arm. I know police reports are a nutters worse enemy, so this is directed to the non-Nutters on SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/702 "2014-01-07T21:32:08Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > cite for the “real dog expert” that “declared that there were no dragging nor shaking injuries to her arm” ? :rolleyes: You quoted the cite in post 675! Here, you can ignore it again: > [@](#): > > He described Bull’s behavior as the response of a startled dog. The dog did not know she was coming and snapped to protect himself. He reviewed the photographs, and explained that the post surgical photo of her injuries do not indicate that the dog either dragged her to the grass or shook her arm as she alleges. It was one or two quick bites and release. Lets take a look at what he is referring to. First, lets be clear that the original injury were two sets of puncture wounds, from one or two bites and immediate release. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/703 "2014-01-07T21:33:19Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Well, you used red text. I must be wrong. > > Because obviously both animal control and the reporters cared so deeply they made sure these weren’t mutts and were actually pits. :rolleyes: Look at the actual pictures, dumbass. Did you watch the video – there are TWO videos with the dogs. Houston Animal Control has identified them. It’s not rocket science and NO ONE – I repeat NOT ONE newspaper or AC source disagrees on this one. “Uhh, Houston, we have a problem here” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/704 "2014-01-07T21:35:09Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > What we are to believe, is the police report: > > It states: > > Fractured right arm. 5 puncture wounds to top of right arm. 2 puncture wounds to bottom of right arm. All that means is there were puncture wounds in the area of the break, anything else is your assumption. Other sites alledge that the break was consistent with a fall. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/705 "2014-01-07T21:36:42Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > “Uhh, Houston, we have a problem here” And it’s between your ears. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/706 "2014-01-07T21:46:38Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > It’s not rocket science and NO ONE – I repeat NOT ONE newspaper or AC source disagrees on this one. You mean your OWN source that states they are MIXES? Yeah, I know reading comprehension is a problem for you…actually, just comprehension, but there are limits (I hope). ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/707 "2014-01-07T21:52:43Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > :rolleyes: > You quoted the cite in post 675! Here, you can ignore it again: To be clear, I am asking for the “dog bite experts” name. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/708 "2014-01-07T21:55:27Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > You mean your OWN source that states they are MIXES? > > Yeah, I know reading comprehension is a problem for you…actually, just comprehension, but there are limits (I hope). this has been upheld in **9 State Supreme and 9 US Federal courts 9 State Appellate Courts as constitutional:** \*\*"Any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying a majority of physical traits of any one or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. The A.K.C. and U.K.C. standards for the above breeds are on file \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/709 "2014-01-07T22:03:23Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > To be clear, I am asking for the “dog bite experts” name. Not needed becuase the police report is clear by itself: “puncture wounds” as opposed to “dragging”, “ripping”, or “tearing” wounds. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/710 "2014-01-07T22:19:25Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > Wow. Just wow. A Husky bit a kid on his head in Australia, and stopped after one bite. Notice It didn’t maintain the mauling until Aussie cops arrived … You just made all that shit up. There’s not a single word even _alluding_ to any of that in the linked article. That’s why you are not credible in this thread: You’re a liar. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > The point is that the child does not have to be alone when it comes to pitbull attacks. Yet in nearly every example posted to this thread, the child _was_ alone at the time of the attack. Nor does a child have to be alone during an attack by any other breed, including the baby whose head was ripped open by a husky on a public beach with lots of people around him. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I was attacked by a pack of 20 to 30 dogs on an Indian reserve at 2 a.m. on a freezing cold December night a couple of hundred yards away from the residential door that I had just exited. I escaped by running at them 3 steps in one direction upon which some pulled back and others circled to get at my heels and 4 steps in the other direction with the same result, to get back to that door I had come from. > > If there was a pitbull among them, I would not be here today. Pure, unadulterated speculation. You can’t _possibly_ know any such thing. > [@cougar58](#): > > Wow. Blaming folks for jumping to conclusions, yet you do just that in the same post. > > The Fatal pit bull mauling in Texas did not involve feral dogs; they were confirmed pit bulls from a single back yard breeder, that “Ooops” just got out. I was clearly referring to the other linked, story, you moron. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > “Confirmed”? Bullshit. > > I watched that news story last night, complete with pictures of the dogs. At best, those were mutts with some pit mixed in. > > People suck at breed identification. > > ETA: FOR FUCKS’ SAKE! Did you even look at the pictures on the website **you linked**? Your own cites show you’re full of shit. No he didn’t, and he doesn’t care. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Well, you used red text. I must be wrong. > > Because obviously both animal control and the reporters cared so deeply they made sure these weren’t mutts and were actually pits. :rolleyes: Look at the actual pictures, dumbass. Pffffff. Good luck getting him to do that. > [@kayaker](#): > > OK, for those who haven’t ever seen one, here’s a pitbull fight. NSFW. > > [pittbull fight (graphic)](http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv174/kayaker01/photo_zpscc82137b.jpg) [Beat ya to it in post 618](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16987547&postcount=618). 😛 > [@cougar58](#): > > And try to comprehend that a pit on a leash can jump and maul you, after you have passed it. The pit may have been behind, or even, with its owner, on its leash. Or it could have pulled its owner. Oh we get that. We really do. But what you don’t get is the fact that often there is a proximate _cause_ for the dog to jump out and go after another dog or a person; that they don’t just mysteriously do it because they’re fucking possessed or something. I had an incident like this last year before we confiscated these dogs and got them on proper leads and calmed down from having been in confinement for over a year. I was walking them on a popular “greenbelt” where people sometimes jog or walk their dogs, though there aren’t many people on it in the evenings when I would take these dogs out. We’d picked up a trick from another dog-walker there, to have the dogs sit whenever another person approached with a dog from the opposite direction, until they passed us and we could proceed without incident. This prevented the natural instinct to pull in an effort to go sniff the passing dog(s), and this always worked very well with them. That is until this one man came along with his mid-sized mixed-breed mutt, and as he was passing me and the sitting dogs, asked if his could say hello. I said I’d rather he not because I was by myself with the two dogs and I’d appreciate if he would just pass by, which he continued to do. Except his dog had other ideas. All of a sudden his dog LUNGED across the path at my dogs, and even though he had one of those leashes that you can lock the mechanism to prevent it from pulling out any more length, which kept his dog from getting all the way across, _my_ dogs responded by standing up from their seated position and lurching across the path at his dog. They pulled so hard and so fast that they damn near gave me rope burns in my palms from trying to hold onto their leashes and they got away from me and went after his dog. He then let his dog’s leash go and all of a sudden we had a three-dog melee in the middle of the path. I tried to break them up and ended up on my back in the ivy. Duke left the tumble and came back to me when I called out to him, and Lola gave up a long few seconds after that. Someone helped me up, I took the two dogs, and hurried their asses down the path to get them to the car as quickly as possible, while the other guy went off in the opposite direction (the directions each of us had been headed in the first place). A good minute or two later, here comes the man running my direction now, SCREAMING at me that my dog had put a hole in his dog and what did I intend to do about it. He _totally_ blamed me because his precious dog hadn’t been able to make it all the way over to my dogs, so it must have been my fault since _he_ stopped his dog but I couldn’t stop mine. Fine. I’ll take my share of the blame since the dogs did get away from me, so give me the name of your vet and I’ll pay whatever the bill comes to, just stop yelling at me. I didn’t have my phone on me, so I gave him my number, which he then called so I’d have his number in my phone when I got home, then we parted ways. The next day, _first thing in the morning_, in called his vet’s office and gave them my name and contact information and told them their client by such-and-such name would be bringing in his dog Bruce and to call me for payment when they had the final bill. Never heard from them all day. Finally I looked through my phone and didn’t see that the call from him came through, so I thought maybe he entered my number wrong and thought I had tried to scam him. But that meant I didn’t have his number, either, to follow up, so I looked him up in an online phone directory and got his address. My husband and I _went to his house_ to check on his dog … and were greeted by some **very humble and embarrassed people who felt really bad about the whole incident**. Turns out he never took his dog to the vet because the single puncture wasn’t very deep and he was able to clean and disinfect it himself with no worries. And when he told his wife what had happened, he had to fess up to her that **their dog had instigated the attack**. If G-d forbid his dog had been injured more severely and it had made the news, I’ll bet you a million dollars how the media — and _you_ — would want to tell the story: Two Snarling Pit Bulls Attack Innocent Dog Walker And His Beloved Rescue Dog As They Simply Walk By Minding Their Own Business. Bull Shit. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/711 "2014-01-07T22:20:24Z")
Are we getting away from the primary premise here? Which, as I see it, is whether or not pitbulls should be legislated against? I’m not trying to be obtuse, I’m trying to be specific and practical - but I suspect that some people in this thread are being deliberately obtuse. The question is - how do you define a ‘pitbull’ and the secondary question then becomes are ‘pitbull mixes’ to be considered as just the same? And if so, how diluted must the mix be, before we stop seeing it as a ‘pitbull’? Is it just about appearance? Is it temperament? Where exactly do we draw the line in the sand? If we weren’t talking about dogs here, the debate would be considered racist. How much ‘pitbull’ is necessary in a dog’s breeding for it to considered ‘stained’? Of course we all know that ‘pitbull’ is a generic term - it does NOT define one particular breed of dog. There are several breeds that come under that umbrella - american pitbull terrier, american staffordshire terrier, staffordshire bull terrier, possibly american bulldogs or boxers - well pretty much any breed of dog which is a considered a ‘bully breed’. Even breeds generally considered pretty tame such as boston terriers, french bulldogs, english bull terriers - those are all ‘bully breeds’! and that’s not even counting other short coated, blunt muzzled dogs like mastiffs, labradors, rottweilers, etc., etc., etc. So, how do we enforce legislation? Is it all about looks then? I posted pics of my dog which in my experience, several people have thought was a pitbull. There are posters who didn’t think he looked anything like what they thought a pitbull looked like. There were others who said, ‘yeah, I could see maybe why that could be the perception…’ Who’s right? Who’s wrong? And how the hell do you decide that in breed specific legislation? If my community were to enact bsl, would my dog be under suspicion? I don’t know and nobody who has seen him knows either! He’s a mutt! He’s a mixed breed! does he have ‘bully type breeding?’ probably, but how do I know? How does anyone? Do we need to start requiring DNA analysis to maybe narrow down the field a little? I wouldn’t be surprised, but I’m thinking a lot of people would be astounded to find out how much ‘bully breed’ is in their own harmless mutt - and many others would be surprised to find that their pitbull is actually a lab/rottweiler/sharpei/chow mix. Or something even tamer… Many…many, many, many of the cites listed in this thread about dog attacks seem to specify ‘pitbull mixes’. Well…where exactly are you going to draw the line? How dilute does the bloodline need to be for you to be satisfied that a dog is not primarily pitbull? I suspect that for most people, its going to be about looks and looks alone. In which case, there are a hell of a lot of breeds that are going to condemned, based on that. This is not about a breed - this is about a type! I seriously wonder how many of the ‘pitbull attacks’ involve a dog who is a purebred, registered dog of any of those breeds that are often cited just as ‘pitbulls’? Do we have any statistics about that? And again - I can’t emphasize this enough - you do know that even the term ‘pitbull’ refers to a type of dog and not a particular breed? Of course, I’m sure that you are all intelligent enough to realize that the people who breed dogs for fighting are not particular about breed? these are not show dogs, folks, these are not the dogs ‘with papers’ that are going to show up at westminster! If you’re fighting dogs for money, you don’t care about breed, you care about size and strength and dogs who have been bred away from their normal ‘wild’ side, so that they don’t know when to stop. That’s not the dog’s choice - that’s what their people ‘bred’ out of them - that’s not a ‘normal’ dog behavior. Even then, the breeders of fighting dogs will cull dogs that exhibit too much aggression towards humans - they want dogs who will fight each other to the death, but not ones who will turn on their handlers, they want to be able to control and direct these dogs! I just want to know - how do you define a pitbull? and are you, based on your own particular criteria, willing to just ‘put to sleep’ any dog that meets that criteria, regardless of its age, or its history or what is known about its breeding? would you be willing to make someone ‘put down’ a family pet of many years because it looks like it might be a pitbull? are you going to make that judgment and maybe even feel a little smug and self satisfied about all the lives you are saving? I don’t get it. I really don’t. how can you know? how can you be that dictatorial and still feel good about it? how can you be that complaisant about ‘what you know’? How can you not know just how much you don’t know? ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/712 "2014-01-07T22:21:17Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Not needed becuase the police report is clear by itself: “puncture wounds” as opposed to “dragging”, “ripping”, or “tearing” wounds. If you knew anything about physics you would know that if a pit bull bit clear thru to the bone, making contact on the top of the right arm, and the bottom of the right arm, it could then drag the victim and not leave oblong punctures. Would you like me to cite cases of pit bulls breaking bones in actual adults? A dog bite that doesn’t secure its teeth to bone, will leave oblong holes as it drags the victim. name of expert, please? ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/713 "2014-01-07T22:26:46Z")
> [@LilyoftheField](#): > > Are we getting away from the primary premise here? Which, as I see it, is whether or not pitbulls should be legislated against? I’m not trying to be obtuse, I’m trying to be specific and practical - but I suspect that some people in this thread are being deliberately obtuse. > > The question is - how do you define a ‘pitbull’ and the secondary question then becomes are ‘pitbull mixes’ to be considered as just the same? And if so, how diluted must the mix be, before we stop seeing it as a ‘pitbull’? Is it just about appearance? Is it temperament? Where exactly do we draw the line in the sand? If we weren’t talking about dogs here, the debate would be considered racist. How much ‘pitbull’ is necessary in a dog’s breeding for it to considered ‘stained’? > > Of course we all know that ‘pitbull’ is a generic term - it does NOT define one particular breed of dog. There are several breeds that come under that umbrella - american pitbull terrier, american staffordshire terrier, staffordshire bull terrier, possibly american bulldogs or boxers - well pretty much any breed of dog which is a considered a ‘bully breed’. Even breeds generally considered pretty tame such as boston terriers, french bulldogs, english bull terriers - those are all ‘bully breeds’! and that’s not even counting other short coated, blunt muzzled dogs like mastiffs, labradors, rottweilers, etc., etc., etc. > > So, how do we enforce legislation? Is it all about looks then? I posted pics of my dog which in my experience, several people have thought was a pitbull. There are posters who didn’t think he looked anything like what they thought a pitbull looked like. There were others who said, ‘yeah, I could see maybe why that could be the perception…’ Who’s right? Who’s wrong? And how the hell do you decide that in breed specific legislation? If my community were to enact bsl, would my dog be under suspicion? I don’t know and nobody who has seen him knows either! He’s a mutt! He’s a mixed breed! does he have ‘bully type breeding?’ probably, but how do I know? How does anyone? Do we need to start requiring DNA analysis to maybe narrow down the field a little? I wouldn’t be surprised, but I’m thinking a lot of people would be astounded to find out how much ‘bully breed’ is in their own harmless mutt - and many others would be surprised to find that their pitbull is actually a lab/rottweiler/sharpei/chow mix. Or something even tamer… > > Many…many, many, many of the cites listed in this thread about dog attacks seem to specify ‘pitbull mixes’. Well…where exactly are you going to draw the line? How dilute does the bloodline need to be for you to be satisfied that a dog is not primarily pitbull? I suspect that for most people, its going to be about looks and looks alone. In which case, there are a hell of a lot of breeds that are going to condemned, based on that. This is not about a breed - this is about a type! I seriously wonder how many of the ‘pitbull attacks’ involve a dog who is a purebred, registered dog of any of those breeds that are often cited just as ‘pitbulls’? Do we have any statistics about that? And again - I can’t emphasize this enough - you do know that even the term ‘pitbull’ refers to a type of dog and not a particular breed? > > Of course, I’m sure that you are all intelligent enough to realize that the people who breed dogs for fighting are not particular about breed? these are not show dogs, folks, these are not the dogs ‘with papers’ that are going to show up at westminster! If you’re fighting dogs for money, you don’t care about breed, you care about size and strength and dogs who have been bred away from their normal ‘wild’ side, so that they don’t know when to stop. That’s not the dog’s choice - that’s what their people ‘bred’ out of them - that’s not a ‘normal’ dog behavior. Even then, the breeders of fighting dogs will cull dogs that exhibit too much aggression towards humans - they want dogs who will fight each other to the death, but not ones who will turn on their handlers, they want to be able to control and direct these dogs! > > I just want to know - how do you define a pitbull? and are you, based on your own particular criteria, willing to just ‘put to sleep’ any dog that meets that criteria, regardless of its age, or its history or what is known about its breeding? would you be willing to make someone ‘put down’ a family pet of many years because it looks like it might be a pitbull? are you going to make that judgment and maybe even feel a little smug and self satisfied about all the lives you are saving? > > I don’t get it. I really don’t. how can you know? how can you be that dictatorial and still feel good about it? how can you be that complaisant about ‘what you know’? How can you not know just how much you don’t know? Lily, great question. Again, pit bull legislation verbiage that has withstood state, federal, and appellate court rulings are as follows: (this has been upheld in 9 State Supreme and 9 US Federal courts 9 State Appellate Courts as constitutional): "Any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying a majority of physical traits of any one or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. The A.K.C. and U.K.C. standards for the above breeds are on file " ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/714 "2014-01-07T22:27:22Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I had an incident like this last year **before we confiscated these dogs and got them on proper leads and calmed down from having been in confinement for over a year.** And I’d just like to make clear that that incident was what prompted me to investigate better harnesses that would allow me to have complete control over them when walking them by myself. Now they can’t even get two feet away from me with their Gentle Leader harnesses. But they weren’t our dogs at the time — we were merely doing a favor for our neighbors who wouldn’t walk them themselves, and were using _their_ equipment on them. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/715 "2014-01-07T22:30:03Z")
> [@LilyoftheField](#): > > I don’t get it. I really don’t. how can you know? how can you be that dictatorial and still feel good about it? how can you be that complaisant about ‘what you know’? How can you not know just how much you don’t know? One word: **Arrogance.** ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/716 "2014-01-07T22:33:04Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > Lily, great question. > > Again, pit bull legislation verbiage that has withstood state, federal, and appellate court rulings are as follows: > > (this has been upheld in 9 State Supreme and 9 US Federal courts 9 State Appellate Courts as constitutional): > > "Any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying a majority of physical traits of any one or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. The A.K.C. and U.K.C. standards for the above breeds are on file " Which definition, by the way, **does not apply to the majority of attacks you’ve linked to in this thread!** Not ONE of them contains any evidence that the dogs in question met _any_ of those criteria. Everyone just _looked_ at the dogs and called them pit bulls. Bet **Lily** can tell you how accurate that method is: **Not at all.** ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/717 "2014-01-07T22:44:45Z")
> [@LilyoftheField](#): > > The question is - how do you define a ‘pitbull’ and the secondary question then becomes are ‘pitbull mixes’ to be considered as just the same? And if so, how diluted must the mix be, before we stop seeing it as a ‘pitbull’? Is it just about appearance? Good question. Good luck getting an actual answer. Based on the responses so far, the answers are apparently “I know it when I see it” and “it attacked a human, therefore it is a pit”. Not entirely objective and somewhat tautological, but there’s no reason this thread would have ended up in the Pit otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/718 "2014-01-07T22:47:32Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > If you knew anything about physics you would know that if a pit bull bit clear thru to the bone, making contact on the top of the right arm, and the bottom of the right arm, it could then drag the victim and not leave oblong punctures. Cite that’s what happened in this case? Or are you just [making ass out of us again](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16993421&postcount=704)? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/719 "2014-01-07T22:52:45Z")
She claims to have been dragged from the sidewalk to the grass. One would think some part of her person would have evidence of [del]road[/del] sidewalk rash. Strange that there has been no mention of this. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/720 "2014-01-07T23:00:07Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > Lily, great question. > > Again, pit bull legislation verbiage that has withstood state, federal, and appellate court rulings are as follows: > > (this has been upheld in 9 State Supreme and 9 US Federal courts 9 State Appellate Courts as constitutional): > > "Any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying a majority of physical traits of any one or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. The A.K.C. and U.K.C. standards for the above breeds are on file " Yeah, I get that - and I think that’s why a lot of that legislation got through - they thought they could figure it out! I’m willing to bet that there were a lot of cases brought to court, for no other reason then to determine ‘breed’. The problem there is that even that is subjective. Hell, there is a lot of subjectivity even in dog shows, where there is a standard for each breed that is expected and that is what is looked for! But…dogs are dogs and whatever the breed, they tend to have a lot of traits in common. There is a lot of confirmation bias involved in this sort of judgment. If what you are looking for is characteristics of a bully breed, you will likely find that. But what if you were looking for characteristics of a rottweiler? Or a mastiff? Or a labrador? And to get even more obscure, a presa canario? a dogo argentino? My whole point is that appearance alone is suggestive only of a type, and not of a specific breed. And whenever dog attacks are reported…well, it seems that if it’s not clearly a ‘lassie’ or a ‘rin tin tin’, or even a ‘wishbone’ - it’s going to be a pitbull. If we were to go through this whole thread and replace the word ‘pitbull’ with the word ‘rottweiler’, would it be the same conclusion? Because other than color (and luckily for them rotts are often determined based mostly on color), could not many if not most of these dogs reasonably be considered ‘rottweiler’ mixes? or maybe even ‘boxer’ mixes? Or even, in a lot of cases ‘lab’ mixes? So…are you saying that maybe the answer is ‘breed type legislation’ and not ‘breed specific legislation’? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714.md?page=37)