# Pit Bulls (continued) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714 "2013-10-08T19:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/61 "2013-10-09T22:45:55Z")
You know, I like Pits in of themselves. I’ve never met a well-socialized one that wasn’t a total sweetheart towards people. But I would never own one. Not because I’m afraid they would bite anyone. And not because the stigma attached to them makes them slightly more troublesome to deal with in public, as people swoon in fear ( though that would be annoying ). It’s because dog aggression and very high prey drives is just really, really common even with the sweethearts. Which also tends to saddle them with poor off-leash recall as well. I frankly wouldn’t own any terrier for much the same reasons ( and my family had a beloved Airedale when I was a toddler ) - they’re a lot more work in a way I don’t want to deal with. But _a lot_ of dog breeds ( like most terriers and many, many others ) have the same issues. You couldn’t pay me to own a Chow for instance. Doesn’t change the fact that I like Pits. Great dogs if you train, socialize and exercise appropriate control over them. Just not for me. And I think that is a reasonable takeaway - they’re not for everyone, but they can have a lot of real value as a pet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/62 "2013-10-09T23:02:11Z")
I knew a guy in college who had a pit bull. The dog was just a bundle of total love. One of the friendliest, most people-oriented dogs I’ve ever met. But she had two habits that were a bit… off putting, if you didn’t know her. The first was that, when she was happy, she purred. Like a cat. Except _bigger_. My friend used to say, “Everyone thinks it sounds like she’s growling. That’s because they’ve never heard her growl.” The second was how she showed affection. Some dogs like to lick people. This dog liked to mouth people. By which I mean, she would place her mouth on your arm and hold it. She wouldn’t bite at all - she was an incredibly gentle dog. But Goddamn, the first time I was sitting on his couch, and his pit bull climbed up next to me, clamped onto my forearm, and went “HURRRRRR,” I about near crapped my pants. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/63 "2013-10-10T14:01:14Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > I had my pit bull circumcised and de-clawed. I thought this would make everybody happy, but instead everybody got pissed at me. Go figure. Was it fat? ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/64 "2013-10-10T14:50:09Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Was it fat? Actually no but he did picket a few soldiers funerals. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/65 "2013-10-10T16:49:57Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Your hatred probably has everything to do with the owners and how badly some people train pitbulls. If abused or raised for fighting they can be viscious. Of course the same is true for many human children, but there is rarely a call to euthanize them. I don’t have a dog (heh heh) in this fight but I wanted to respond to this cause I’ve seen it elsewhere as well. Of course we wouldn’t euthanize children, even bad ones, because THEY’RE PEOPLE. Dogs are not people and everyone needs to realize and accept that. Eugenics is a terrible crime when practiced on people but its perfectly alright to do on animals. The earth really is here to serve us, and if humans decide tomorrow that most of us don’t want a specific breed of dog around anymore, or a plant, or a virus, then its morally and legally ok to eugenicize it to extinction. The fact is, through no fault of their own, pit bull attract a disproportionately amount of bad owners compared to other dogs. Whether through ignorance or maliciousness, these owners feel their dog has to behave a certain way, a way dangerous to other humans, and so maybe if we can’t ban people from mistreating the dogs, the next best thing is to just ban the dogs themselves. Its sad, its not an ideal solution, but if it saves human lives, then I’m fine with banning an entire breed of dog. We’re not violating the dog’s rights because dogs have no rights, and unlike guns, most people seem fine with not allowing others to own something because it presents a public nuisance. I have no problems with that ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/66 "2013-10-10T16:54:44Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > Actually no but he did picket a few soldiers funerals. Yeah, fatties are always unpatriotic like that. They basically hate America. At least he was circumcised, because to not be is disgusting and unhygienic. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/67 "2013-10-10T16:55:15Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Its sad, its not an ideal solution, but if it saves human lives, then I’m fine with banning an entire breed of dog. It _may_ save a few lives in the short term. But then the asshat dog breeders simply choose another breed. And now there’s another breed to ban and lives continue to be lost. Worse, if you ban a particular breed, people may be led to believe the problem is over and asshat dog breeders don’t need to be dealt with, until they pick another breed. I don’t own a dog (allergies), and I don’t particularly care if people want to ban a breed or not. But I’d like for it to make sense. And banning a breed as a safety measure is pretty damned short sighted. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/68 "2013-10-10T17:42:31Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It _may_ save a few lives in the short term. Then let’s do it. > [@](#): > > But then the asshat dog breeders simply choose another breed. And now there’s another breed to ban and lives continue to be lost. Then we’ll ban that breed too. Eventually all the wannabe gangster dog owners will get a Golden Retriever or a Black Lab and get over themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/69 "2013-10-10T18:10:01Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Eventually all the wannabe gangster dog owners will get a Golden Retriever or a Black Lab and get over themselves. Ha. If you think Golden Retrievers and black Labs can’t be (mis)trained for aggression and turn out genuinely dangerous, you are woefully mistaken. Many of them can be very dangerous even if they’re not deliberately brutalized, as in [this example](http://ygrr.org/surrender/surrender-aggressive.html): > [@](#): > > During the first year of YGRR’s [Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue] operation, YGRR directors had the tragic experience of taking responsibility for a seven month-old Rescue Golden who severely injured a child, resulting in hundreds of facial stitches, facial paralysis and hospitalization. […] After two months of evaluation and training, the dog had shown no signs of aggression and we placed him in a home with no children. > > His new owner continued obedience training with him and he was a star pupil. She called often to tell us of his progress. On the fateful day, he went with his owner to a family gathering. He spent the day surrounded by children and adults and enjoyed playing with everyone. That night, as he sat next to his owner at the dinner table, her nephew (a toddler of three) bumped against him. The Golden turned and viciously attacked the child. It took several adults to pull the dog off the child, but not before a great deal of damage had been done. _ **ANY** breed of dog will turn out occasional vicious individuals, and **ANY** breed of dog will rack up a horrendous charge sheet of vicious and aggressive behavior if unscrupulous breeders and trainers become interested in it as a potential “badass dog”._ Labs and Goldens are big and strong dogs, and if they want to be nasty they can be very dangerous. **Do not imagine that a brutal trainer couldn’t make them want to be nasty.** **Great Antibob** is quite right that banning a particular breed rather than going after the “badass dog” producers is pointless and counterproductive. Your proposed scenario of desperately rushing to keep up with the “mean dog” industry by banning one breed after another as each of them becomes the new trendy “mean dog” would just be a waste of legislators’ and enforcers’ time. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/70 "2013-10-10T18:53:59Z")
Any gangstas who are hoping for an attack Labrador face long odds. They’re far, far more likely to drive their owners crazy by repetitive demands to throw objects to retrieve. Pep is [the most sinister Labrador](http://www.easternstate.org/contact/press-room/photos/pep-dog-mugshot)\* I’ve been able to document. \*it appears that Pep’s reputation was undeserved and that he was actually banished to the penitentiary for ripping up seat cushions. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/71 "2013-10-10T18:57:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Ha. If you think Golden Retrievers and black Labs can’t be (mis)trained for aggression and turn out genuinely dangerous, you are woefully mistaken. Of course any dog can be trained to be dangerous. But some dogs were bred to be dangerous and some weren’t. > [@](#): > > Many of them can be very dangerous even if they’re not deliberately brutalized, as in [this example](http://ygrr.org/surrender/surrender-aggressive.html): So that dog had an owner who wisely wanted to get rid of him since he growled at children who approached his bowl and was nipping at people… Kill it. The “unfortunate” incident with the kid it mauled wouldn’t have happened. > [@](#): > > Labs and Goldens are big and strong dogs, and if they want to be nasty they can be very dangerous. **Do not imagine that a brutal trainer couldn’t make them want to be nasty.** Yes, but they aren’t as strong or dangerous as Pit Bulls. If it was a Pit Bull that kid probably would be dead instead of scarred. > [@](#): > > **Great Antibob** is quite right that banning a particular breed rather than going after the “badass dog” producers is pointless and counterproductive. Who said “rather than”. Let’s do both. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. As to the cost of enforcement, put it on the Pit Bull owners. Fine them and fee them to cover the costs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/72 "2013-10-10T19:23:03Z")
The end gaol has to be getting all dogs neutered and only licensed breeders allowed to breed dogs. banning unlicensed pit bull breeders is one step to that goal. This is why pit bull lovers have to stop fighting all breed specific legislation. Those which ban the possession, yes, those are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/73 "2013-10-10T19:48:34Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Eventually all the wannabe gangster dog owners will get a Golden Retriever or a Black Lab and get over themselves. Like I said, the only mauling death I personally know was a Black Lab. I think there’s better ways of dealing with the problem than banning every single dog that is large enough and strong enough to kill someone. I’m all for the idea of banning any unlicensed breeding of dogs. I’m more than happy to start that with pit bulls, even though I like the breed, as long as it gets the ball rolling. In my neighborhood alone, there is a lot of stupidity regarding dog breeding, especially pit bulls. I’m happy to cut down on that. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/74 "2013-10-10T19:58:40Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > He’s “Mr. Worldwide.” Also he’s from Mami. And has lots of money. And women. Oh, and he’s from Miami apparently… dahhhhlen. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/75 "2013-10-10T20:56:33Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Of course any dog can be trained to be dangerous. But some dogs were bred to be dangerous and some weren’t. “Bred” by whom? The molossus-type breeds such as pitbulls were **not** developed to be human-aggressive. Yes, “mean dog” breeders have produced many vicious pitbull strains, but how long do you think it takes breeders to significantly increase aggression in their chosen “mean dogs” by selective breeding? Dogs reproduce pretty fast, remember. > [@Debaser](#): > > Yes, but they aren’t as strong or dangerous as Pit Bulls. If it was a Pit Bull that kid probably would be dead instead of scarred. Not necessarily, plenty of pitbull attack victims **aren’t** dead. The point is that your attempt to draw any kind of hard-and-fast line between “breeds that are dangerous” and “breeds that aren’t” is silly. What matters far more than the original type of the breed is whether the “mean dog” industry is currently focusing on that breed as a source of “mean dogs”. The sensible approach is to put down **all** individuals, of whatever breed, that exhibit dangerous aggression, and vigorously go after the “mean dog” industry as well as irresponsible owners to halt dangerous mistreatment of dogs of **any** type. That will be a much more effective use of time and energy than feel-good _ad hoc_ prohibitions of arbitrarily defined canine phenotypes. > [@Debaser](#): > > Who said “rather than”. Let’s do both. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. Your proposal is more like “we can walk and trip over our shoelaces at the same time”. Yes, we can, but the tripping over our shoelaces is counterproductive for our walking. Likewise, using up legislative and enforcement resources to try to establish “permissible” and “forbidden” dog breeds and argue over which types of mixed breeds fall into which category and so on and so forth is just diverting time and energy from measures that will actually be effective in reducing the danger of “mean dogs”. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/76 "2013-10-10T21:10:57Z")
This reads a lot like security theater for airports with people taking off their shoes and limiting the size of liquid containers through checkpoints. Or the war on drugs requiring photo IDs for buying cough syrup. The problem is that while these rules may make it marginally more difficult to do things for plane hijackers or would-be drug lords, they just find alternate methods of achieving their goals. Despite all the security rules, we don’t generally feel safer flying. And the drug trade is thriving. Flat out bans on breeds of dogs achieves the same thing - little to nothing. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/77 "2013-10-10T21:37:36Z")
Ferrets! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/78 "2013-10-10T22:04:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m all for the idea of banning any unlicensed breeding of dogs. I could go along with that, although my own beloved childhood companion was an extremely unlicensed composite of setter/sheepdog/collie/?.\* I’m kind of sorry to think that future kids won’t have the fun of the wonderful grab-bag of mutt mixes that were spontaneously produced back in my day. But allowing random pet owners to casually breed instead of neutering their pets whenever they feel like it seems to be mostly benefiting the sociopaths in the mean-dog industry, so I suppose its day may be over. This is why we can’t have nice things. \*That is, she herself was licensed once I got her, of course, but her genetic heritage had nothing to do with licensed **breeding**. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/79 "2013-10-10T23:20:44Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > Continued from where? Is this thread II of a trilogy? I need to know where I am in the continuity. It’s part II of the _second_ trilogy. That’s why it sucks as bad as the second Star Wars trilogy did. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714/80 "2013-10-10T23:26:06Z")
Diplomatic Nonny: > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > [@pulykamell](#): > > > > Too much time on the Dope… > > Me or you?😉 Why can’t it be both? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls-continued/670714.md?page=5)