# Pit bulls **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 22, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045 "2008-11-22T22:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/61 "2008-11-24T21:29:31Z")
Since this is GQ and we seem to have some participants who know pits, is it true that if they bite down on something really hard that their jaws can lock shut? That’s another urban legend I’ve heard regarding pits for the longest time. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/62 "2008-11-24T21:39:37Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Since this is GQ and we seem to have some participants who know pits, is it true that if they bite down on something really hard that their jaws can lock shut? That’s another urban legend I’ve heard regarding pits for the longest time. That’s a myth. Pit bulls are a dog like any other dog and none have “locking jaws”. Probably this stems from them being tenacious once they chomp down and unwilling to let go for anything (lots of dogs will do that). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/63 "2008-11-24T21:43:02Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Since this is GQ and we seem to have some participants who know pits, is it true that if they bite down on something really hard that their jaws can lock shut? That’s another urban legend I’ve heard regarding pits for the longest time. From [here](http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pitbull-myths.htm) > [@](#): > > The most stunning instance that debunks the “not locking jaw” myth occurred in a courtroom. During the Toldeo vs. Telling trial, Lucas County Dog Warden Tom Skeldon showed a videotape of a tranquilized pit bull hanging from a steel cable. The dog is unconscious and still does not release his grip ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/64 "2008-11-24T21:45:40Z")
So which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/65 "2008-11-24T21:51:58Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > So which is it? False. No dog has a locking jaw, or else they all do. There is no musculoskeletal difference between pitbull types and any other breed. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/66 "2008-11-24T21:53:03Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > So which is it? The jaw does not “lock” at all. There is no mechanism to lock the jaw in a dog’s physiology and that of course includes Pit Bulls. They are merely tenacious and even unconscious I guess its instinct is to keep its jaw closed. I have seen a video of a drug sniffing dog that was trained to not let go for anything but an appropriate signal from its handler. In a demonstration the dog sniffs out a piece of luggage with drugs inside and grabs the handle in its mouth. The handler then does his level best to get the bag away from the dog and it flatly refuses to let go. The handler even swung the suitcase around in a circle and the dog remained firmly affixed to the luggage while literally flying around in circles with the suitcase (was maybe a 25 pound dog). Upon the appropriate command (after all that) the dog immediately let go. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/67 "2008-11-24T22:00:59Z")
Some other facts forom my previous link. Pit Bulls are liars. > [@](#): > > Pit bulls are also liars. Randall Lockwood, a senior vice president to the American Society of the Prevention of Cruelty for Animals (ASPCA), shares the following story in a law enforcement training video: > > "Fighting dogs lie all the time. I experienced it first hand when I was investigating three pit bulls that killed a little boy in Georgia. When I went up to do an initial evaluation of the dog’s behavior. The dog came up to the front of the fence, gave me a nice little tail wag and a “play bow” – a little solicitation, a little greeting. As I got closer, he lunged for my face."7 And its not just the owner, since in the case of owners they and their household are just as likely to get killed by a pit bull. In fact, 30% of fatalities of humans from dogs are the family pitbull attacking a family member. > [@](#): > > Poor ownership of a pit bull may exacerbate aggressive tendencies, but the pit bull is still an innately aggressive breed. Pit bulls have been selectively bred since the 1800s for the purposes of fighting and continue to be bred for fighting today. US courts agree that the following breed characteristics of pit bulls are not in dispute: robust strength, unpredictability, tenaciousness (the refusal to give up a fight) and high pain tolerance.2 > Perpetuators of this myth also cannot account for the many instances in which responsible pit bull owners are victimized by their dogs. In 2007, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 60% of attacks that led to fatality. Half of these attacks involved a family member and the family pit bull. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/68 "2008-11-24T22:06:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The jaw does not “lock” at all. There is no mechanism to lock the jaw in a dog’s physiology and that of course includes Pit Bulls. They are merely tenacious and even unconscious I guess its instinct is to keep its jaw closed. So what. the mechanism might not be in the hard drive but it sure is in the software. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/69 "2008-11-24T22:06:49Z")
I pulled a pit-bulls jaws off my dog’s ear with my bare hands once. It probably helped that the dog was only about a year old and not fully developed, but my fingers were still bruised for weeks afterwards! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/70 "2008-11-24T22:30:52Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > So what. the mechanism might not be in the hard drive but it sure is in the software. Sure…tenacity is definitely a common doggy trait and not unique to Pit Bull-type dogs. Just that a Pit’s jaws are quite powerful and difficult to pry apart if they do not want to let go (not really easy on any dog actually). ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/71 "2008-11-24T23:39:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It means that if the criterion for ranking breeds is danger towards humans pit bulls are worse than labs. I wasn’t ranking breeds. The statement you responded to was “There are no bad breeds. Only bad owners.” [QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Baseball bats do not have a mind of their own and must be wielded by someone. [/QUOTE] Right. They’re not dangerous until someone makes them dangerous. Just like dogs. [QUOTE=Sateryn76] Thankfully, the dog was killed the next day. I hope it suffered… [/QUOTE] So, you believe that a dog is some kind of moral agent, who must be punished for his misdeeds? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/72 "2008-11-24T23:42:47Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Some other facts forom my previous link. > > Pit Bulls are liars. That quote says “fighting dogs.” As in “dogs trained to be vicious.” Repeat as necessary – “No bad breeds. Just bad owners.” > [@](#): > > And its not just the owner, since in the case of owners they and their household are just as likely to get killed by a pit bull. Just as likely as what? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/73 "2008-11-24T23:56:38Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > That quote says “fighting dogs.” As in “dogs trained to be vicious.” Repeat as necessary – “No bad breeds. Just bad owners.” They meant fighting dog breeds. How do you train a dog to lie? > [@](#): > > Just as likely as what? Just as likely as someone outside the family. Just goes to show that on the whole they are unpredictible and prone way more than other dogs to act irrationally. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/74 "2008-11-25T00:07:18Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > They meant fighting dog breeds. How do you train a dog to lie? I have no idea. But it said nothing about pit bulls. Just fighting dogs. > [@](#): > > Just as likely as someone outside the family. Just goes to show that on the whole they are unpredictible and prone way more than other dogs to act irrationally. Your cite’s methodology is flawed. Fatally, in my opinion. Relying on media reports for breed identification is useless. > [@](#): > > “..to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy than those by other breeds, our methods may have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities by breed.” (JAVMA, Vol 217, No. 6, September 15, 2000, p. 838). [Cite.](http://www.nopitbullbans.com/?page_id=32) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/75 "2008-11-25T01:11:14Z")
The irony is that various types of bulldogs (and their many related and semi-related and not-very-related-but-lumped-together-by-the-ignorant kin are actually not causing damage by clamping down. The amount of force they exert is a hell of alot less than it takes to serious injure, and clamping down is a means of stopping the target, not outright hurting them. of course, any of these breeds are not so bright, either, which means they don’t know what to do after they stop something. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/76 "2008-11-25T01:13:34Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > What is a bull terrier? You act like an authority on pit bulls but ask this question? That’s revealing. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/77 "2008-11-25T01:32:09Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > There’s no chance my Bichon will kill either of my kids. Therefore I picked an appropriate breed for my lifestyle and situation. Why anyone with kids would choose a pit bull as a family pet is beyond comprehension. Pit bulls used to be called “the nanny dog” because generations of Americans had first-hand experience watching them around growing children. The pit bull’s good nature, factually established love of humans, bravery, and high capacity to endure poking and prodding made it reliable and trustworhty around children. That’s probably why. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/78 "2008-11-25T01:36:45Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Pit bulls used to be called “the nanny dog” because generations of Americans had first-hand experience watching them around growing children. The pit bull’s good nature, factually established love of humans, bravery, and high capacity to endure poking and prodding made it reliable and trustworhty around children. > > That’s probably why. Don’t confuse them with facts. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/79 "2008-11-25T02:11:45Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Pit bulls used to be called “the nanny dog” because generations of Americans had first-hand experience watching them around growing children. The pit bull’s good nature, factually established love of humans, bravery, and high capacity to endure poking and prodding made it reliable and trustworhty around children. > > That’s probably why. The “nanny dog” was the Staffordshire Bull Terrier which is smaller than the American Staffordshire and American Pit Bull Terrier. I do not know all the individual differences between those breeds but it is worth keeping in mind that these are all generally lumped together in the “Pit Bull” category when talking about what threat they may or may not pose. Perhaps the Staffordshire Terrier is a saint…you still need to account for the others as they are different. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/80 "2008-11-25T02:16:52Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Right. They’re not dangerous until someone makes them dangerous. Just like dogs. Suggesting every dog is a blank slate and they all start with the same predispositions and merely await to be molded by their owners is patently wrong. Different breeds have varying characteristics. Can any dog be bad? Of Course. Can any breed be good? You bet. That does not mean that Rotts and Pit Bulls are not closer by default to being dangerous than, say, a Lab. I’ll re-cite what the CDC said about them that I posted in #60 above: _“Despite these limitations and concerns, the data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, **there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.** ”_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045.md?page=5)