# Pit everything cause I fucking want too. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169 "2006-03-27T23:02:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/41 "2006-03-28T00:11:11Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > Yeah those fags where named fags off of ancient greek for “Get AIDS and Herpes” I read it once in a book or something. Great answer for any question based on Homosexuality for GQ eh. > > How about this one > > Yeah niggers means “to lazy to work or take care of there children” in ancient latin I read that in a book. > > See how I can get an insult in without much work? Of fucking course it is insulting enough in the pit but hell lets allow similar in GQ. > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7235705&postcount=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7235705&postcount=2) So you feel that (incorrectly) guessing the word “Christian” came from the Greek word “Chrestian” is exactly as offensive as posting that niggers are too lazy to work or take care of their children? :dubious: Does the fact that the claim was immediately refuted carry any weight with you, or is that not how things are done in the “real” world? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/42 "2006-03-28T00:16:12Z")
Apologies for the poor coding/grammar in that last post…could a mod fix that, or altenatively help me commit seppuku? > [@Miller](#): > > Well, she did recover, which makes the “persistent” part of “persistent vegitative state” questionable. But I’m wondering exactly how “recovered” she really is. They were saying exactly the same things about Terry Schiavo, as I recall. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_vegetative_state)\* , PVS doesn’t actually mean “permanent” in the way the name would suggest - merely that it persists over time, with the chances of the person recovering from it decreasing from an already low chance as time goes on. So if it’s the case that she has recovered to the point where she’s no longer in a PVS, that’s still consistent with being diagnosed with it in the first place. \*Obviously not the best cite, so if someone has a better one, feel free to prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/43 "2006-03-28T00:18:02Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > **Abbie** , I disagree with you about many things, but please take this as meant sincerely and in your best interest: step away from the keyboard. You are not doing yourself any favors by posting while this pissed off. Come back when you’re calmer and have some perspective. In the first place, you can’t make rational arguments when you’re this ticked, and in the second place, no one is going to take you seriously or do much but poke you with a stick til you do. I’ll second this. You’re not going to get many people to listen to you with the tone you’ve got going. Take a break for a while. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/44 "2006-03-28T00:20:17Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > So you feel that (incorrectly) guessing the word “Christian” came from the Greek word “Chrestian” is exactly as offensive as posting that niggers are too lazy to work or take care of their children? :dubious: > > Does the fact that the claim was immediately refuted carry any weight with you, or is that not how things are done in the “real” world? Look Giraffe I know your neck is long and it takes some time for blood to flow to your noodle but you cannot be that fucking blind. It was meant as an insult, clearly and completely it was not in a DEBATE forum or a PIT forum it was in GQ where factual questions are not answered. If he wanted to call Christians simpletons he has all the other areas on this forum to do so. Hell he will join the majority but not in GQ. He was refuted but not told to keep uninformed opinions (or guesses that take all of one second on google to find out how wrong you are) out of GQ or did I miss a MOD appearance? Didn’t think so. On preview, Hey Rev do your search this time find out how long it takes a reputable doctor to make that diagnosis. See if it is a week (which is the point where her doctors told DSS they could remove life support) ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/45 "2006-03-28T00:22:14Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I’ll second this. You’re not going to get many people to listen to you with the tone you’ve got going. Take a break for a while. Going to bed so perhaps that break will do the body good. The mind will always be warped though so this will be the same thing when I awaken. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/46 "2006-03-28T00:26:18Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > Going to bed so perhaps that break will do the body good. The mind will always be warped though so this will be the same thing when I awaken. Then maybe you should make a conscious effort to change the tone. Any points you may have had are being lost in the ravings. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/47 "2006-03-28T00:31:26Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > On preview, Hey Rev do your search this time find out how long it takes a reputable doctor to make that diagnosis. See if it is a week (which is the point where her doctors told DSS they could remove life support) Sure, be happy to. Please try and calm down a bit, though. While i’m looking, could you find me a cite for the doctor’s diagnosing PVS within a week of them first meeting her? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/48 "2006-03-28T00:32:24Z")
> **[Haleigh Poutre is no Terri Schiavo](http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/01/30/haleigh_poutre_is_no_terri_schiavo/)** > > THE CASE of Haleigh Poutre, the battered child at the center of a legal and medical dispute in Massachusetts, is so horrific as to evoke medieval tableaux of hell. This 11-year-old girl was failed by all the adults in her life, from her biological... > [@](#): > > To put it simply: Haleigh Poutre is no Terri Schiavo. Schiavo had been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years, and had undergone a barrage of tests showing that she had no higher brain functioning and no consciousness – a fact on which all unbiased medical experts agreed. (Her case had also undergone repeated court review.) Haleigh had been in a vegetative state since Sept. 11. **After the Supreme Judicial Court ruled that she could be taken off life support, the girl began to show improvement.** > Dr. Nancy Childs, a renowned brain injury specialist in Austin, Texas, told The Boston Globe that 16 percent of brain-injured adults recover after three months of unconsciousness. Neurologists also say that children, with their still-growing and more elastic brains, have a better prospect for recovery from brain injuries than adults. > > Yet, shockingly, the state Department of Social Services had first sought to terminate Haleigh’s life support only three weeks after her hospitalization, after doctors declared her to be virtually brain-dead. Because her records are sealed, we don’t know what tests were done to reach this conclusion. It certainly looks like the DSS showed unseemly haste in wanting life support discontinued. > > … > > Some caution that the high cost of caring for comatose patients may become a financial incentive to end life support. Did such considerations influence the decision-making at the DSS? All of this warrants investigation. **But, contrary to the overheated claims of right-to-life advocates, the officials and doctors are not death-happy ghouls: They were quick to order new tests after Haleigh’s biological mother reported that she saw some signs of improvement**. > > All of us – journalists, politicians, concerned citizens – must make sure that Haleigh gets every chance at life she can have. **I would suggest, however, that the vocal champions of Terri Schiavo’s ''right to live" stay away from this case. After the falsehoods and the hysteria they propagated about Schiavo, their involvement here could only do harm.** > > The ''save Terri" brigade turned a tragedy into a macabre circus. Politicians such as Representative Tom Delay, a Texas Republican, and pundits such as Fox News’s Sean Hannity embraced patently absurd claims that Schiavo was able to communicate and even talk. They made wildly misleading claims about the medical credentials of ''experts" who said Schiavo could be conscious. They asserted that Schiavo’s coma may have been caused by abuse from her husband, Michael. > > With their cries of ''medical terrorism" and their comparisons to Nazi Germany, these so-called champions of life created an atmosphere in which some of their supporters made death threats not only to Michael Schiavo but to judges and legislators who had been on the ''wrong" side of the dispute. > > **This kind of support is the last thing Haleigh Poutre needs. Haleigh’s cause should be championed – by those who have the moral authority and the credibility to speak about it. This case raises many disturbing issues, from the efficacy of child protection to care for comatose patients. It deserves to be in the spotlight; it does not deserve to be turned into Terri Schiavo II**. Abbie Normal you are way off base, there were other things going on the case and this in no way invalidates anything from the Schaivo case, as this was a minor the authorities needed to deal with the self interested wishes of the official guardian, if there is a fault here is with the overzealous prosecution that very likely influenced the diagnostic because it could have lessened the charges against this criminal guardian, there are many to blame in this case particularly the DSS, but dopers here are the least ones that deserve it, since many here based their decisions on the best information available then, you should take into account who was the guilty party here. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/49 "2006-03-28T00:34:22Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > He was refuted but not told to keep uninformed opinions (or guesses that take all of one second on google to find out how wrong you are) out of GQ or did I miss a MOD appearance? Didn’t think so. I’m not a GQ mod (not enough people comparing everything to the word “nigger” for my taste), but it seems to me that if they scolded every poster for every post that was later shown to be factually incorrect, everyone would be banned and there would be like three threads. Besides, as I read it, **BrainGlutton** was saying that the ancient Greeks thought Christians were simpletons, not him/her. Hardly a scathing insult – who cares what ancient Greeks think? They’re all dead. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/50 "2006-03-28T00:35:38Z")
IIRC, at the time this article was posted here, **Abbie Normal** posted that his daughter had been diagnosed as being autistic. Perhaps he mixed up autism and PVS, or thought people were advocating that treatment be withheld from all disabled persons? ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/51 "2006-03-28T00:50:12Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Sure, be happy to. Please try and calm down a bit, though. > > While i’m looking, could you find me a cite for the doctor’s diagnosing PVS within a week of them first meeting her? > [@](#): > > Although Haleigh’s doctors said she had a damaged brain stem and would remain in a vegetative state, other neurologists and ethicists have said it can take a year to determine whether such a young patient can recover from serious brain injuries. > > But eight days after Haleigh was hospitalized, DSS sought permission from a Juvenile Court judge to remove her life support. [http://cbs4boston.com/topstories/local\_story\_082193025.html](http://cbs4boston.com/topstories/local_story_082193025.html) Now I can head to bed. \*\* Giraffe\*\* The BG rant was probably off base, but it is on this board anti religion, very strong. And BG may not have meant that to be an insult. I’m sorry for insulting you and him. **Guinastasia** She is deaf and autistic not PVS. You may be saying that in a half joking manner, but it is true in many aspects. Children do not have the rights we as adults enjoy and the state (and the supporters such as DtC and Jeep) make it so much more pitiful. They tease by using stupid sayings “YThink of tghjhdSA CHILDREN!!OLIHN” Or some such shit and think they won a moral war. I would never fear for my child to be in that situation because I would make sure she gets the comfort and care she deserved and after reputable doctors made the call, go with a second opinion and perhaps a third then follow the guidance. This little girl did not have any of that, she had people like DtC so busy pushing there agenda they failed to see a live little girl underneath. This is NOT new most of this was hashed out in that thread but it didn’t dissuade that fucker from even thinking about changing his opinion, he just bit the bullet and dug in. Fighting ignorance my ass. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/52 "2006-03-28T00:56:18Z")
Is this one of those flame outs a day before your membership was going to expire anyway? I love those. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/53 "2006-03-28T00:56:57Z")
In **BrainGlutton’s** defense, Christians were often called “Chrestians” by Pagan writers, either as a deliberate pun or perhaps even from confusion (the words sounded virtually identical in Latin at the time). In addition, Suetonius once wrote the following passage in _Life of Claudius_ which may or may not refer to Christians: As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome. Some people try to argue that _Chrestos_ = Christos and that Suetonius simply didn’t appreciate (or care about) any distinction between Christians and Jews but Chrestos was actually a pretty common name in Rome (it meant “good”) and Jesus (obviously) was never in Rome. In any case, it seems from ancient writings that there actually was more than a little confusion among non-Christians about the name of that new Jewish cult…especially since “Christos” is really sort of an awkward translation of “Messiah” (Annointed). Christos literally meant “oiled” or “oily.” Intuitively, Romans would have been more likely to hear "Christ/Christaians as “Chrestos/Chrestians” since the latter implied followers of “the Good” (or the Good God) rather than followers on “the Oily one.” So BrainGlutton was not completely out to lunch on that. The earliest Christians did sometimes get called “Chrestians,” it just wasn’t the origin of the name. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/54 "2006-03-28T00:57:46Z")
My point is, you seemed to be reacting personally, as if someone would want then to “kill” your child, because we didn’t see anything wrong with someone choosing to take someone in a PVS off of life support. You weren’t being objective. In fact, you’re acting like a rabid killer shrew. Anti-religious? Put up or shut up. What does some dumbass statement from **BrainGlutton** have to do with this place being anti-religious? He made a stupid claim, he was called on it and shot down. Repeatedly. That somehow makes this place anti-religious? Please, take a break. Back off. Drink some Sleepy Time Tea. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/55 "2006-03-28T01:02:45Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > \*\* Giraffe\*\* The BG rant was probably off base, but it is on this board anti religion, very strong. And BG may not have meant that to be an insult. I’m sorry for insulting you and him. Accepted, and no worries. 🙂 I do agree that posts/posters which are critical of religion are by no means a rare occurance here, but disagree that religious people are treated unfairly. I’d be interested in seeing any links you have which you feel show unfair treament of religious posters. (Posters offering the opinion that belief X of religion Y is stupid don’t count, of course. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.) ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/56 "2006-03-28T01:25:12Z")
Thanks for the cite, **Abbie**. I do see a problem with it though - the doctors are never quoted with having diagnosed PVS after those 8 days - PVS is not mentioned at all. What the doctors did claim, according to the [story](http://cbs4boston.com/topstories/local_story_082193025.html) , is; > [@](#): > > “They absolutely affirmed that the chances of her recovery were absolutely zero. There was nothing for us to report to the SJC. There was nothing that had changed.” > [@](#): > > Although Haleigh’s doctors said she had a damaged brain stem and would remain in a vegetative state, > [@](#): > > “It was a quick move because the doctors believed that intrusive care was both inhumane and useless,” Spence said. In fact the doctors were claiming that she was in a vegetative state, that this state was permanent, and that they could do nothing to get her to improve significantly - not the same thing as PVS. To highlight the difference, the [American Medical Association](http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/12720.html) says: > [@](#): > > So the term “persistent” should be restricted to patients in a vegetative state of at least 1-month duration, while “permanent” should be used when it can be determined with an extremely high degree of certainty that the condition is irreversible The AMA backs you up on one point - they say a month is the least length of time that the patient must remain in a vegetative state to be diagnosed as in PVS. **However** , as I pointed out, the doctors didn’t, according to this story, diagnose PVS in those 8 days - just that she was in a vegetative state, one which was permanent, and as the AMA site says “permanent” vegetative status can be used when they’re extremly sure she won’t come out of it - which they were. I’m afraid that according to that story the doctors did not diagnose incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/57 "2006-03-28T01:25:38Z")
It is so hard to take someone seriously when they don’t seem to know the difference between homonyms. Especially when they make a pit thread which references other threads, then don’t link to them. **It’s not up to other people to pony up your cites asshole.** Let’s all remember that this is the guy who picked the name **Abbie** Normal, and expects people to tell that he’s male by the fact his location says “arrow not cross”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/58 "2006-03-28T01:34:24Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > I would never fear for my child to be in that situation because I would make sure she gets the comfort and care she deserved and after reputable doctors made the call, go with a second opinion and perhaps a third then follow the guidance. This little girl did not have any of that, she had people like DtC so busy pushing there agenda they failed to see a live little girl underneath. This is a lie, read what the Boston Globe columnist reported. > [@](#): > > This is NOT new most of this was hashed out in that thread but it didn’t dissuade that fucker from even thinking about changing his opinion, he just bit the bullet and dug in. Fighting ignorance my ass. And what should we call the one that spews ignorance by purposely ignoring the facts shown even on the same thread? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/59 "2006-03-28T01:55:51Z")
Behind all the frothing at the mouth of the OP, and missdirected anger at other dopers, there is a very valid pitting of the Doctors who were willing to diagnose the child as in a PVS with zero chance of recovery. As long as doctors make such stupid mistakes (and it is stupid to ever risk a false positive diagnosis of PVS) it lends credence to those who would rather remove peoples right to die, and/or prevent the legal judgments necessary to remove life support from someone who is kept alive only through constant intervention with no possibility of regained consciesness. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169/60 "2006-03-28T01:56:13Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And what should we call the one that spews ignorance by purposely ignoring the facts shown even on the same thread? Retarded? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-everything-cause-i-fucking-want-too/350169.md?page=4)