# PIT Maneuver and Motorcycles **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680 "2024-06-09T20:48:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/1 "2024-06-09T20:48:00Z")
Just watched a police video of a hot pursuit against a motorcyclist. The motorcyclist delighted themself several times by taunting the cop immediately behind him, only to speed away. The video ended before there was an outcome. Do police perform the PIT Maneuver against a motorcycle? There is always an element of danger and injury pitting a four-wheeled vehicle. One would think the same thing against a motorcycle the potential critical injury, even death, is magnified. Anyone know if police (any jurisdiction) have a policy for/against pitting someone on a bike? ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/2 "2024-06-09T21:00:06Z")
I don’t have a factual answer as to all police departments, but PITting a bike is the equivalent of shooting the suspect–they might survive, they might not. So, is lethal force justified? Most street bikes are more than capable of evading a police car by sheer speed and maneuverability and although certainly capable of injuring people in another vehicle or killing a pedestrian, their biggest danger is to themselves. The only safe way to stop a bike is a roadblock and that probably won’t work either. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/3 "2024-06-09T21:18:29Z")
There are plenty of videos of police using the PIT maneuver against motorcycles on youtube, so obviously some police departments do allow it. As @Tride said, it is considered deadly force, and therefore is only used in situations where deadly force is authorized. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/4 "2024-06-09T21:40:52Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > As @Tride said, it is considered deadly force, and therefore is only used in situations where deadly force is authorized. It therefore should only be used in situations where deadly force is authorized. And not just against the biker, but against anyone else on the road at the time, because the bike crashing is likely to result in other motorists crashing, too. Judging by the number of videos of it, though, at least some police do it when they shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/5 "2024-06-09T21:55:36Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > don’t have a factual answer as to all police departments, but PITting a bike is the equivalent of shooting the suspect–they might survive, they might not. So, is lethal force justified? Performing a PIT maneuver on an automobile moving at greater than about 35 mph (and even lower for a top-heavy vehicle like an SUV) can also be lethal as there is a significant possibility of rollover. At highway speeds, rollover is a more typical response than not. Many police departments and law enforcement agencies have restricted the application of PIT maneuvers to specific “pursuit-trained” drivers and only in exigent circumstances where the driver is an imminent danger to others. PIT’ing a motorcycle—in effect, kicking the rear tire out of contact with the pavement—will almost certainly result in loss of control because even if the rider can keep the bike upright it will come down askew to the direction of motion, and unless the rider has the presence of mind to lock the rear brake the rear wheel will kick up as it hits pavement. It is hard to imagine a circumstance which would justify such an action unless the rider were shooting or had intentionally struck someone. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/6 "2024-06-09T22:23:20Z")
It’s amazing how safe modern cars are–you watch some of these crash videos and can’t believe the occupants walk away. High speed PIT maneuvers seem to result mostly in lurid slides, although if/when they leave the roadway all bets are off. The bike/rider is going down the minute the cop touches the rear wheel, and they’ll be lucky if it’s a low-side. High-side at serious speed isn’t very survivable. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/7 "2024-06-09T22:33:46Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > The bike/rider is going down the minute the cop touches the rear wheel, and they’ll be lucky if it’s a low-side. High-side at serious speed isn’t very survivable. If you are [Tom Cruise](https://youtu.be/kEXmYnKUcUU?si=dX0v3x5A8QyAGRBR), you just leap off the bike, flying through the air firing double fisted, and do a Yurchenko double pike to a perfect dismount, physics and biomechanics be damned. But for the mortal rider, if you go over on the high side at a minimum you are going to have a few hundred pounds of bike rolling over you, most likely squishing you like a bug and scraping you along the pavement or spine-first into the curb or solid barrier. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/8 "2024-06-09T23:40:21Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > The bike/rider is going down the minute the cop touches the rear wheel, and they’ll be lucky if it’s a low-side. High-side at serious speed isn’t very survivable. For those who aren’t familiar with motorcycle terms, low side is when the bike basically slides out from underneath you, and you and the bike both go sliding down the road with the bike out in front of you. A high side is when the bike starts to slide out from under you, but then the tires get some momentary grip, and instead of sliding, the bike flips over and launches you through the air in a fairly dramatic fashion. [![](https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/chp%3A10.1007%2F978-3-030-83628-3_21/MediaObjects/494771_1_En_21_Fig6_HTML.jpg) ](https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/chp%3A10.1007%2F978-3-030-83628-3_21/MediaObjects/494771_1_En_21_Fig6_HTML.jpg) Example of a high side crash during a motorcycle race: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WcijyWFIt6Q/maxresdefault.jpg "Miller's nasty off-throttle highside in FP3 | 2020 #FrenchGP") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcijyWFIt6Q) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/9 "2024-06-09T23:56:36Z")
With a similar risk/reward analysis, I assume stop strips would also be contraindicated? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/10 "2024-06-10T00:30:28Z")
Long time motorcyclist here. And MSF instructor. 200,000 miles, no accidents. I’m surprised that such maneuvers would be allowed, but, okay, they are. Are all of these chases authorized with use of deadly force? They should be, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/11 "2024-06-10T00:37:07Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I assume stop strips would also be contraindicated? Police can use spike strips against a motorcycle, but again this is considered deadly force and can only be used in situations where deadly force is authorized. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/12 "2024-06-10T01:34:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > . It is hard to imagine a circumstance which would justify such an action unless the rider were shooting or had intentionally struck someone. OP didn’t specify country, so I will note that police in London regularly use what they call “tactical contact” against perps who are fleeing on scooters. Never mind PITting, TC includes anything up to/including a head-on collision. See YouTube for examples. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/13 "2024-06-10T03:17:01Z")
Thanks for illustrating–to explain further in a low-side you tend to come down “gently” and slide. If you’re wearing appropriate gear and don’t hit anything you might walk away even from triple digits. A high-side you impact hard and tumble. You might break your neck at 30 mph. IMO a PIT on a bike at speed is likely to create a high-side situation, so lethal force for sure. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/14 "2024-06-10T13:18:04Z")
So what’s it called when the bike flips back on its tail? Instagram and TikTok are full of Darwin-scale videos where someone is pulling a wheelie, gets too high and scrapes the back end, resulting in uncontrolled wobble and if they are lucky, simply sitting down on the ground (at speed) and the unmanned bike does it’s own tumbling acrobatics in a random pattern. I agree. Trying to knock over a bike at high speed is essentially the same as shooting - with the added bonus that the cruiser may run over the rider and avoid the need for a double-tap. And yes, unless we are talking about 100mph+ speeds or pushing the car into a brick wall, a vehicle crash is most likely survivable, even a roll-over. This assumes, of course, the perp is smart enough to wear their seatbelt. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/15 "2024-06-10T13:31:23Z")
That would be “looping it.” Good YouTube fodder for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/16 "2024-06-10T13:33:12Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Thanks for illustrating–to explain further in a low-side you tend to come down “gently” and slide. If you’re wearing appropriate gear and don’t hit anything you might walk away even from triple digits. As long as all you do is slide. With high speed low-sides there’s a lot of inertia and the body can start to roll, and then arms and legs can flop around and break. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/17 "2024-06-10T17:45:16Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > As long as all you do is slide. With high speed low-sides there’s a lot of inertia and the body can start to roll, and then arms and legs can flop around and break. It helps to wear leather, which is why leather outfits are associated with bikes (but sometimes assciated with other activities…) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/18 "2024-06-10T17:59:05Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > It helps to wear leather, which is why leather outfits are associated with bikes Leather (or Kevlar) protective gear will help prevent road rash (for as long as it holds up), and padding on the knees, elbows, and spine will prevent incidental injury from landing hard on those areas, but if you are going over on the high side or spinning into a slide it isn’t going to do much to prevent serious contusions and fractures when you come into contact with a solid barrier. And if the bike flies up and then lands on you, you’re likely to end up with a flail chest or internal organ damage that is life-threatening regardless of how much protective gear you are leaving. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/19 "2024-06-10T18:00:24Z")
Well… It is possible to high-side at 150 MPH with no injuries. Not that I want to try it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpg1y5EVZtw&ab\_channel=NHRA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpg1y5EVZtw&ab_channel=NHRA). ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680/20 "2024-06-10T18:05:55Z")
That rider was really lucky; if he hadn’t just slid under the tail he would have been a wet spot on the pavement. Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-maneuver-and-motorcycles/1002680.md?page=2)