# Pit rules have been revised **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 24, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256 "2009-02-24T19:34:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/121 "2009-02-24T21:27:10Z")
In summary: Rule 2 needs to either go to hell, or… No, it can go to hell, I’m on board with that. Certain types of abuse has never been ok (racial bashing comes to mind). I’ve seen people begging for something along the lines of Rule #5 for a while. Not because of the kiddies, but sometimes the profanity is early enough in the thread title that it’s the first thing anyone walking by sees. Swear later, IN the thread, that’s more creative. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/122 "2009-02-24T21:27:16Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > We hope people will appreciate the intent - we’re trying to establish some minimal level of civility in the Pit. _THEN WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A BBQ PIT?!!!_ Its whole purpose is to maintain civility in the other forums! GET RID OF IT. Since you didn’t respond to my last post that I politely asked you to, I’ll try to make sure you see this one: Please respond, Ed ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Wombats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Wombats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Wombats)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/123 "2009-02-24T21:27:36Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > I don’t want to get into a protracted discussion of hypotheticals, but none of the above strikes me as abusive. I disagree! I think it’s essential we engage in hypotheticals at this point. The rule YOU wrote encourages so-called “creative insults,” but as the members of this board have pointed out, the distinctions you’re drawing are incomprehensibly vague. I think you take pride in the general quality of people who post on this board, until they disagree with you or point out flaws in your reasoning anyway. While the distinction between “insult” and “abuse” may be clear to you, the comments on this and the associated threads should make it obvious, I would think, that we don’t see the lines you’re drawing. Someone who seeks to “fight ignorance” would jump at the chance to make his arguments and viewpoints more clear, rather than muddy, I would think. What you think is abusive and what we think is abusive may be entirely the same, but right now none of us can see the lines you’re attempting to draw. I have trouble attributing this to any desire to clean up the content of the pit. if I’m reading the rules wrong please say so, but it seems I can call Sally Jesse Raphael\* a “fucking soggy cuntwaffle deserving of a lifetime of misery and horror,” but I can’t do the same for a poster? How is there any difference here? Right now, I don’t see this as a rule so much as a general guideline resulting in arbitrary and capricious enforcement at best. Review the preview, if you want a business environment and not a “biker bar” why not just eliminate the pit and ban foul language across all the forms.. Heck, you could even start requiring business lingo too. That might make it sound like a real business! I’m not complaining, I’m simply illustrating a potential reduction to our bottom line. It’s foolproof! \*I have nothing against you Sally. You just happened to be the first name to pop into my head. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/124 "2009-02-24T21:29:03Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > You misspelled “Fresno”. I don’t know how to get to Fresno from Nashville. [QUOTE=SoulFrost] [QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] You can go to Hell without dying. Just take I-40 westbound from Nashvile for about 2 hours. Bang! You’re in Memphis. [/QUOTE] Shhh… that’s hate-speech now! I’d like to state publicly that I support Memphisensians and think that their oppression by The Man should end! [/QUOTE] Oh, please. I’m not saying all Memphians are hell spawn. Not even all Memphis Dopers. Just that one guy **Fabulous Creature** was an butt-monkey. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/125 "2009-02-24T21:29:31Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You can go to Hell without dying. Just take I-40 westbound from Nashvile for about 2 hours. Bang! You’re in Memphis. Of course, you can also travel to Hell, Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/126 "2009-02-24T21:30:23Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t know how to get to Fresno from Nashville. If I were you, I’d make sure I never learned. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/127 "2009-02-24T21:30:38Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > To the extent people think we’re running a biker bar here … well, let’s just say where I can see it would complicate my life. Can anyone explain this sentence to me? It does not computer whatsoever. Not the biker bar comment or “let’s just say where I can see it would complicate my life.” ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/128 "2009-02-24T21:30:40Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Serious question, Ed: Does it concern you at all that opposition to this is almost literally UNIVERSAL among the people who make up this place, and have been paying to post here and clicking on your ads for years, and in some cases a decade now? A messageboard _IS_ its membership. Piss off the entire membership and you will literally end up with the online equivalent of a ghost town. Board software and webspace with no one using it. Please respond. No disrespect, but I guess we’ll just see. People have been claiming the board was going to the dogs pretty much since the first day we fired up the server. We’re currently at record high traffic. I’ll be surprised if we see much of a drop, but if we do, what does that tell me? “X percent of posters went away because I said they had to be civil.” Again, no disrespect, but how upset do you expect me to be? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/129 "2009-02-24T21:30:41Z")
> [@wring](#): > > Of course, you can also travel to Hell, Michigan. Then I wouldn’t have been mocking myself. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/130 "2009-02-24T21:30:44Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > We hope people will appreciate the intent - we’re trying to establish some minimal level of civility in the Pit. **Ed** , I think everyone clearly understands the _intent_; we don’t understand the _necessity_. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/131 "2009-02-24T21:31:44Z")
I fail to see the point of banning posts like, “[username], you’re a fucking cunt.” when a post like “[celebrity/politician/kiddie-fiddler-of-the-week-oh-feel-my-outrage/moron-at-the-checkout/driver-of-the-car-that-cut-you-up-this-morning/Mom], you’re a fucking cunt.” is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/132 "2009-02-24T21:31:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t know how to get to Fresno from Nashville. Actually, completely from memory, you’d just stay on the 40 until you get to the 15, then pick up the 5 north and bear right onto the 99 north. It’s about 3 days, of course :). ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/133 "2009-02-24T21:33:06Z")
To forestall the obvious reply, I will state up-front that I am very relaxed right now. I am sitting in a comfortable chair, and I have a cafe au lait. You look up “relaxed” on Wikipedia, you find my picture. I have no further need to relax. If I were any more relaxed, I would be asleep. But could we get some clarification on the extremely confusing examples posted by mods and admins so far in this thread? It appears that “asshole” is OK but “ass” is not. “Cunt” is OK but “fuck you” is out. I thought briefly that the standard was going to be profanity, but if cunt and asshole are acceptable, I was obviously wrong. So what IS the standard? Insulting and abusive are essentially the same thing in my mind. Frankly, I will probably just not post in the Pit, because I am not interested in second-guessing everything I’m tempted to write. “Is this over the invisible line? I have no idea. Maybe I should rewrite it. Ah, fuck it, it’s not worth it.” I suspect this will be similar for a lot of other posters. And if you want to get rid of the Pit, just get rid of it. The new rule feels dishonest and confusing. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/134 "2009-02-24T21:33:07Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > No disrespect, but I guess we’ll just see. People have been claiming the board was going to the dogs pretty much since the first day we fired up the server. We’re currently at record high traffic. I’ll be surprised if we see much of a drop, but if we do, what does that tell me? “X percent of posters went away because I said they had to be civil.” Again, no disrespect, but how upset do you expect me to be? So, basically, “fuck you whining pussies”. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/135 "2009-02-24T21:33:47Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > No disrespect, but I guess we’ll just see. People have been claiming the board was going to the dogs pretty much since the first day we fired up the server. We’re currently at record high traffic. I’ll be surprised if we see much of a drop, but if we do, what does that tell me? “X percent of posters went away because I said they had to be civil.” Again, no disrespect, but how upset do you expect me to be? I would expect you to listen to the people who make up this board - mods, posters, and SDSAB alike - who are telling you that this is a horrible idea. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/136 "2009-02-24T21:34:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Then I wouldn’t have been mocking myself. Thankfully mocking is still allowed. It is, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/137 "2009-02-24T21:34:55Z")
**Ed** , I think a large part of the problem here is that this is not an ideal world and people often do not think and react as expected. I would imagine that in your mind people would just accept all this as adults and behave accordingly, thereby raising the tone in the Pit and making it more pleasant, adult place with a higher tone while still allowing posters to have the occasional, though well mannered, go at one another. You can see now what the reality will be. People will be jumping through hoops to test the boundaries, to split hairs, to go out of their way to create problems and bog you down in minutia. They will be endlessly petty and resentful and challenging, and trying to moderate it all will likely prove impossible. So I respectfully suggest that you either do away with the Pit altogether (which I’m _not_ in favor of) or restore it to its previous self with the exception that mod abuse not be allowed and that mod questions or criticism be limited to ATMB, with ATMB rules in force. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/138 "2009-02-24T21:35:20Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > No disrespect, but I guess we’ll just see. People have been claiming the board was going to the dogs pretty much since the first day we fired up the server. We’re currently at record high traffic. I’ll be surprised if we see much of a drop, but if we do, what does that tell me? “X percent of posters went away because I said they had to be civil.” Again, no disrespect, but how upset do you expect me to be? Way to minimize your way into obfuscation, Pal. You fail to point out that the high traffic was on a board with a functional Pit. You also fail to point out that the Pit was implemented so civility could be maintained on the rest of the board. What you’re really doing is fucking the board to hell and gone, and you’ve just stated pretty obviously that don’t care what we think. ---
**Author:** ![SharkB8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@SharkB8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SharkB8)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/139 "2009-02-24T21:35:33Z")
Can we sell the Pit’s soul for a shorter waiting time between searches? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256/140 "2009-02-24T21:37:24Z")
Okay, so, “fuck you” is verboten. What about “fuck _off_”? Or “fuck _that_”? “Fuck _that noise_”? How about “blow me”? Is that okay? “Suck my taint”? “You are cordially invited to chew my man gland”? What about any of those with a “fuckface” at the end? “Eat shit”? “Eat _my_ shit”? “Enjoy the smell of my urine”? “May you spend an eternity in Tampa”? No, wait, that one’s obviously beyond the pale. This unfocused attempt to draw some borders around Pit language and label one set “civil” and the other “not civil” according to the nebulously undefined standards of abusiveness versus cordiality is sheer madness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-rules-have-been-revised/487256.md?page=8)