# Pit thread for Martin\_Hyde {He has been BANNED} **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045 "2022-05-24T22:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/541 "2022-05-29T15:01:41Z")
The problem with threads like these is that there are a lot of gun supporters out there and it’s important to understand their perspective if any real change is going to be made. People are acting as if kicking all the pro-gun people off the SDMB means that the anti-gun people have won the battle. But in reality, it just means that the SDMB becomes more of an anti-gun echo chamber and doesn’t get the perspective of pro-gun people. MH is just one person. What does it matter in the grand scheme of things if he changes his mind or leaves the board? People are acting as if he represents all pro-gun people and if he goes away, the problem is solved. But there are lots of people out there with similar beliefs. Without pro-gun people being part of the discussion, we can’t figure out what kind of compromise will work for fixing the gun problem. The fact is that the pro-gun people vote, and lots of politicians support pro-gun policies. Grouping all pro-gun people with mass child murders is very counterproductive to coming up with any kind of compromise on gun rights. With an issue as important as this, is critically important to get as wide spread support as possible, and that includes pro-gun people. We need to come up with policies that they will generally support since any change will require their support to be implemented. Winning the MH pit thread battle means nothing to winning the gun policy war. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/542 "2022-05-29T15:07:02Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > The problem with threads like these is that there are a lot of gun supporters out there and it’s important to understand their perspective if any real change is going to be made. The problem with your post is you assume people have rejected the position of gun supporters without first having come to understand it. I certainly haven’t. Believe me: I get it. And contrary to NRA propaganda, a lack of understanding among gun control advocates does not explain why we keep having mass shootings. The NRA pushing propaganda and lobbying and mobilizing its single issue voter base to garner influence over our political system, on the other hand? Yeah, that might have something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/543 "2022-05-29T15:14:15Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Without pro-gun people being part of the discussion, we can’t figure out what kind of compromise will work There are two reasons given by the pro-gunners: Politically supporting the multi billion dollar domestic weapons market yields dollars and votes The second amendment was inscribed on a note in the Bible Jesus gave to King James Where’s the compromise? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/544 "2022-05-29T15:27:53Z")
The problem with posts like yours is you forget this is the pit and people are venting about how gun fetishists yet again, just got a bunch of kids slaughtered. ETA: so we have to be polite to the baby killers or they’ll stop posting here? Fuck them ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/545 "2022-05-29T15:50:00Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I could swear he already left a thread, maybe it was this one, but I ain’t bored enough to look. Maybe if you can’t follow along you just shouldn’t post at all, it isn’t that hard. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Let’s remember, you’re the guy who facilitates murder. I think part of America’s problem is that we’ve been too polite to people like you. > > Stop being a piece of shit and I’ll stop calling you a piece of shit. Again–I facilitate murder by being in favor of raising the minimum age to purchase a gun **at all** to 21 years, and requiring a mental health evaluation for anyone under age 25? Would you like to clarify your stupid bullshit statement? Or are you opposed to my gun control policies? Some of the few that would have actually, for what it’s worth, prevented the most current tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/546 "2022-05-29T16:01:15Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > There are two reasons given by the pro-gunners: > > Politically supporting the multi billion dollar domestic weapons market yields dollars and votes > > The second amendment was inscribed on a note in the Bible Jesus gave to King James > > Where’s the compromise? This is a good example of a “very low quality post”, where the poster presents two “reasons” given by “pro-gunners” that largely no one has mentioned or suggested previously in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/547 "2022-05-29T16:15:11Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Again–I facilitate murder by being in favor of raising the minimum age to purchase a gun **at all** to 21 years, and requiring a mental health evaluation for anyone under age 25? Would you like to clarify your stupid bullshit statement? Or are you opposed to my gun control policies? Some of the few that would have actually, for what it’s worth, prevented the most current tragedy. You’re kidding yourself with self-congratulatory delusions if you think your idea would have prevented this tragedy. The problem is that gun worship and gun proliferation and the consequent ease of acquiring guns is so rampant throughout the US _ **thanks to policies enabled by gun nuts like you** _ that being under 25 or under 21 would have been nothing but a minor inconvenience to this murderous lunatic. Straw purchases or borrowing/stealing a parent’s or friend’s gun to get around gun age restrictions are as common as underage drinking in other countries, and for the same reasons. The only way to curtail gun violence is through much more fundamental cultural and legal changes than gun nuts like you would ever allow. Because, yannow, “liberty” and “free-dumb”. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/548 "2022-05-29T16:18:47Z")
This post seems to say we shouldn’t legislate gun control–interesting perspective for someone who claims to be anti-gun. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/549 "2022-05-29T16:25:06Z")
No, the post says that half-assed ideas will do very little if anything. I wouldn’t oppose half-assed ideas that make it a little bit more difficult for murderous lunatics to acquire guns, except to the extent that most of them are useless feel-good symbolism that create the _ **illusion** _ of constructive action. It’s idiotic to believe that such half-assed measures will fix much of anything. Most of the ideas proposed by gun nuts won’t do much because they’re specifically designed to be minimally inconvenient to gun nuts. Want real gun reform? Look at what the rest of the civilized world is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/550 "2022-05-29T16:33:50Z")
My proposals are almost carbon copies of several other countries gun laws FWIW. I don’t actually think you really know much about international gun laws, and have a mistaken assumption that most countries just ban all guns or something. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/551 "2022-05-29T16:38:41Z")
Here’s my clarification: “I also firmly want it understood—I am 100% willing to trade more deaths for gun rights.” And then you start that typical gun fetishist bullshit of JAQing off in the thread that triggered this pitting of you, then you get all upset that we’re being mean to you. You think I’m being rude. You know what I think is rude? Being the kind of person who says, “ I also firmly want it understood—I am 100% willing to trade more deaths for gun rights.” ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/552 "2022-05-29T16:40:19Z")
You’re not just being rude–you’ve simply spammed the same lie over and over again and then defended wishing death on other people. You’re patently immoral, have literally no moral high ground. On top of that you have advanced virtually no intelligent discourse at all, essentially just ranting like an unstable / unhealthy person. People who are patently immoral simply don’t need to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/553 "2022-05-29T16:40:54Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > My proposals are almost carbon copies of several other countries gun laws No, your proposals are copies of 5% of most civilized countries’ gun laws, omitting the 95% that you don’t like because it hampers your child-killing “liberties”. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I don’t actually think you really know much about international gun laws, and have a mistaken assumption that most countries just ban all guns or something. LOL!! 😄 I guess you’ve forgotten that I _ **live** _ in one of those countries. And I can tell you that gun laws are _ **a lot** _ more strict in the UK, for instance, than they are in Canada. But compared to either of them, the US has virtually no gun laws at all. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/554 "2022-05-29T16:42:04Z")
I don’t think you actually know what my proposals are–which is fine, why let facts get in the way of your silly ranting. My proposal on limiting gun purchases to people over age 21, and requiring a mental health evaluation for people under 25, are not the totality of my proposals, I’ve listed more in this thread and in the original thread which generated this one. Like I said, you appear to actually oppose gun control, which is hilarious given the tone of your posts in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/555 "2022-05-29T16:45:00Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > {…} People who are patently immoral simply don’t need to be taken seriously. Exa-fuckin-ctly. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/556 "2022-05-29T16:48:55Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > you appear to actually oppose gun control You appear to actually be a disingenuous moron, to put it kindly. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/557 "2022-05-29T16:49:17Z")
Ah yes, more low effort ad hominems. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/558 "2022-05-29T16:53:51Z")
Really? After several weeks where I engaged in extensive back-and-forths with you about what can and must be done to curb gun violence in America and bring it into line with all other civilized countries means that I “oppose gun control”? Fuck off. “Disingenuous” is much too kind a word to describe your brand of bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/559 "2022-05-29T16:58:39Z")
I think this thread should probably be stickied as a Master Class in “winning” a Pit Thread–which is precisely what I have done. A quick synopsis of what happened here: 1. Unhinged, immoral people make deranged, baseless accusations against someone who simply says that while he is not in favor of an absolute ban of all firearms, he is in favor of many significant gun control measures. 2. This person adroitly counters all of their false and low information statements, while remaining civil and dismissing their arguments without resorting to childish behavior. 3. Exposes several well-known trolls and “play actors” who participate in these threads solely as performance art–note that after exposing them, most of those posters dropped out of the thread. 4. Reduced several other posters to literally nothing beyond simply repeating the same profanity and ad hominems over and over again. 5. Reduced several other posters to the tried-and-true grade school tactic of “quoting one or two words from a person’s post and then altering its meaning” (it wouldn’t be surprising if one of them does that with this post in fact.) 6. Exposed a significant number of posters on this board as being deeply immoral, and willing to wish death on innocent people as long as it makes them “feel schadenfreude” of some sort against gun owners. I actually don’t think I could have asked for a more effective representation of illogic and poor behavior than the one the “mob” in this thread put forth. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/560 "2022-05-29T17:01:01Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > {…} ad hominem {…} > **[Ad hominem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Usage)** > > Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a personal attack as a diversion often using a totally irrelevant, but often highly charged attribut... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045.md?page=29)