# Pit thread for Martin\_Hyde {He has been BANNED} **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045 "2022-05-24T22:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/41 "2022-05-25T00:54:39Z")
Except for the child murder, he’s a good guy. He’s a piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/42 "2022-05-25T01:30:18Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > How the fuck is mass shootings NOT in his area of special interest when he posts about them ALL THE TIME? And he comes in to dispute that stat and plays coy that he doesn’t know it is wrong? Super creepy. If you haven’t encountered him before I think an objective summary would be: pompous, stupid, cruel bigot. [Paul Was In Saudi is Pitted](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-was-in-saudi-is-pitted/952796) [A pitting for Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791) ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/43 "2022-05-25T01:34:07Z")
He has flown beneath my radar. I’ll await his reply to my P&E post asking about his motives and peruse these two threads in the meantime. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/44 "2022-05-25T01:36:13Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I’ll await his reply to my P&E post asking about his motives and peruse these two threads in the meantime. Prepare yourself, they are headache-inducing at times. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/45 "2022-05-25T01:37:12Z")
Don’t expect any worthwhile interaction. An accurate description of his conversational style: [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-was-in-saudi-is-pitted/952796/20?u=riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-was-in-saudi-is-pitted/952796/20) ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/46 "2022-05-25T01:39:57Z")
Yeah, this response didn’t leave me expecting much. Not so much a sponge, but a dog running away with a tail between the legs. > [@Uvalde, Texas school shooting - the political thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/66): > > Good night. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/47 "2022-05-25T01:49:46Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > If you haven’t encountered him before I think an objective summary would be: pompous, stupid, cruel bigot. I just knew that he had some real crime junkie-type obsession with mass killings and a tendency to refer to himself in the third person objective like someone with depersonalization-derealization disorder. I don’t even want to click on those links and find out what you mean by “pompous, stupid, cruel bigot”. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/48 "2022-05-25T02:34:35Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > FWIW I don’t think my ideas are magical I also admire your flair for understatement. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > there’s a lot of entrenched thinking on this Thank you for conceding a point that has been repeatedly made by innumerable dopers. Finally. That was pretty weak sauce, Martin. I see why you prefer to play the satirist on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/49 "2022-05-25T03:09:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I don’t even want to click on those links and find out what you mean by “pompous, stupid, cruel bigot”. He’s a really blatant homophobe and isn’t shy about it. He doesn’t even see why it’s such a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/50 "2022-05-25T03:14:04Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > FWIW I’m an antagonistic person And that is what I think the problem is. Your antagonism doesn’t only show up when you intend it to. It leaks a lot. In this case, you took a political potshot. You framed the gun control position in the worst possible light, to the point that it is inaccurate. Rather than show an interest in debate, you misrepresented the argument. It is clear that posters on the SDMB do not in fact only care about gun control whenever a mass shooting happens. This is clear because there are plenty of threads that get started at times when there hasn’t been such a shooting. It is also clear that gun control activists don’t only care about it when a mass shooting happens, as they’ve been fighting for gun rights for a long time. Using these types of hyperbole do tend to come off as antagonistic, even if that is not your intent. This is especially so after you have admitted that sometimes your purpose for posting here is to “slap people with a fish” or something like that. I know the feeling. I also often can’t hide my frustration or antagonism to something said, even though I think I have. And I’ve got taken to task for it. But it’s important to try. If not, then it’s entirely fair for people to think you’re just doing it to piss people off. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/51 "2022-05-25T03:17:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This is especially so after you have admitted that sometimes your purpose for posting here is to “slap people with a fish” or something like that. I don’t think I have ever said anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/52 "2022-05-25T03:39:33Z")
Besides the callous use of the falacy of relative privation to say that we can’t talk about the murder of 18 elementary kids and a teacher because there are lots more other shootings, his main point is just flat out wrong, and ludicrously so. Yes, most of the thread titles related to guns in the last couple of months are about mass shooting, but that’s because there is a new one every fucking month, and so any interest in talking about gun control in general can find a home in whatever happens to me the most recent mass shooting thread. In every single one of those straight dope, the pro gun control dopers discuss the larger epidemic of gun violence beyond the current mass shooting. Why? Because it makes our point! It supports that gun control argument more than anything else. Democrats talk about the mass shootings because they are the best way to get a disinterested public engaged with the larger problem of gun violence in America. Saying that the Democrats only care about mass shootings and don’t care about the larger issue of gun violence would be like saying that Republicans are only interested in the few examples of illegal immigrants who commit violent crimes, while not caring at all about the fact that thousands of illegal immigrants cross the border every day. It’s nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/53 "2022-05-25T04:06:52Z")
The only fish slapping I can recall involved a Monty Python cast member, possibly speaking in an exaggerated French accent? ETA: I misremembered the accent. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/YLdK9zaLaG8/hqdefault.jpg "Mr Palin on the sport of Fish Slapping.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLdK9zaLaG8) ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/54 "2022-05-25T04:07:51Z")
Pardon me for embracing the hijack, because while I’ve had disagreements with Martin\_Hyde (including a snipe at him in his prior pit thread after he called me a liar most politely), he isn’t wholey wrong on this issue of messaging. I will not speak to the racist elements, or dishonest conversation topics because for many reasons I’m avoiding that other thread. On to specific points from the thread that AREN’T about M\_H. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > You know, it is possible to be a gun owner—even a (pejorative) _gun lover_ —and still recognize that there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed with more than “thoughts and prayers”. The problem is that _gun lovers_ have been co-oped by a propaganda machine that has equated any form of controls or government oversight as a politically-oriented attack on basic freedoms and has incidentally allowed itself to be infiltrated by unfriendly foreign agents. > > Stranger I normally describe myself as moderately pro-gun. I do own several, both purchased and more inherited, and do have a CCW that I secured during a point when my job put me at definite if not huge risk but only after an approved safety course with rangetime. But I also have all my serial numbers registered with my insurance and through a local police outreach in case of theft. There are two firearms in a secured biometric safe in the bedroom, and the rest are in a secure vault-style safe. And I have no children in the house to put at risk. I have zero issues with making similar requirements legal law. Buuuuuut… Those sentiments get me -hated- by the groups suggested above, because they feel that any compromise is a slippery slope. And back to M\_H point, you get politicians, like Beto (who I wanted to vote for) who say ‘Hell yeah we’re going to take your guns’ which feed into that propaganda machine, which shouts down countless moderates on the issue. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > As I understand it, most gun owners are in favor of background checks and most NRA members are as well. Yet the NRA got itself hijacked by the most radical of its lot. The slippery slope fallacy has got to go. Which is what I was talking about in part in my prior book. I absolutely support mandatory background checks as well as altering some of the laws regarding some of the transfers on even personal sales, although I think there should be (speaking from personal experience) a better way to handle inherited weapons than paying a per item FFL transfer. But that’s details. However, I’ll also disagree with the characterization of the NRA. I was never a member, but could see the _point_ - until I dug into the NRA’s past. It’s always been much more about keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong (see POC) people, and a whole lot less about protecting 2nd Amd. rights or firearm safety. Fuck those asshats. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think the only things that will change the gun culture would be minorities arming themselves in record numbers [snip] Sorry for the snip, but this is actually a point I brought up in a couple of [thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-or-those-close-to-you-purchased-a-firearm-in-the-last-2-years-covid-insurrection-mass-shootings/941915/64)s months back. The recent massive increase in gun sales included a massive jump (40% according to reporting) in non-traditional first-time buyers - mostly POC and women. And not for what I’d consider happy reasons - just fear of lockdowns, racial violence against African-Americans and Asians, and general disorder. The question is, if down the line, this demographic of more casual owners will care in enough to shift both perceptions of gun-owners away from the Proud Boy / Militia Wannabe / Redneck trope AND contribute their experiences to changing the current gun culture. I’m hoping, but, well, figure it’ll take decades for that at best. So TL:DR - we gun moderates are actually still here, and we want to find alternatives, but we were looooong ago drowned out by the extremists, and since many of us (including me) already vote D on most issues (because the R tossed out fiscal responsibility, sold their soul to Christian Supremacy,and a host of social issues not to mention the oily goo of the Trump-era) we’ve been written off as possible sources of votes and have zero influence in said circles. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/55 "2022-05-25T04:39:49Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I normally describe myself as moderately pro-gun. I do own several, both purchased and more inherited, and do have a CCW that I secured during a point when my job put me at definite if not huge risk but only after an approved safety course with rangetime. But I also have all my serial numbers registered with my insurance and through a local police outreach in case of theft. There are two firearms in a secured biometric safe in the bedroom, and the rest are in a secure vault-style safe. And I have no children in the house to put at risk. I have zero issues with making similar requirements legal law. Buuuuuut… > > Those sentiments get me -hated- by the groups suggested above, because they feel that any compromise is a slippery slope. And back to M\_H point, you get politicians, like Beto (who I wanted to vote for) who say ‘Hell yeah we’re going to take your guns’ which feed into that propaganda machine, which shouts down countless moderates on the issue. I am also a gun owner, though in my case it’s only one pistol. It’s also registered with the police and kept locked up. For what it’s worth, nobody on this board has ever given me any grief about it. I’m also moderately pro gun (but think all guns should be registered and we need better controls in general). ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/56 "2022-05-25T04:45:29Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Besides the callous use of the falacy of relative privation to say that we can’t talk about the murder of 18 elementary kids and a teacher because there are lots more other shootings, his main point is just flat out wrong, and ludicrously so. I never said people can’t talk about things. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/57 "2022-05-25T04:52:54Z")
Only because you don’t have the authority to do so. You certainly suggested that we shouldn’t talk about it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/58 "2022-05-25T05:05:08Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > ETA: Wait, isn’t @Paul_was_in_Saudi the guy who has the creepy running “Mass Shootings in the US” thread in which he refers to himself in the third person as “The Commissioner”? Redirected to @Paul_was_in_Saudi’s own pre-existing thread: [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-was-in-saudi-is-pitted/952796/43](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-was-in-saudi-is-pitted/952796/43) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/59 "2022-05-25T10:24:41Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > {…} The coup de grace comes in the days that follow, when the GOP gets to juxtapose how you only care about crime when it involves a scary gun, because if that **wasn’t true** , why are you talking about banning long guns again? Why are you against police in the very big cities that are “overrun with crime?” Why are you indifferent to illegal border crossings? {…} We shouldn’t be upset about mass shootings! We should be upset about the nig… Blacks and the wet… Mexicans! Ahh yes, the party of ‘You hate gunowners ,you the real racist!’ ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/60 "2022-05-25T10:57:35Z")
After the tsunami, I went to Indonesia and built five water treatment plants, several kilometers of water distribution networks, and 15 public water distribution points. In Kosovo, I helped organize the first free and fair election. That’s who I am. You help get school kids slaughtered. That’s who you are. You are a piece of shit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045.md?page=4)