# Pit thread for Martin\_Hyde {He has been BANNED} **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045 "2022-05-24T22:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/721 "2022-06-01T12:58:47Z")
What _is_ sad is that the 50+ people murdered by guns everyday _is_ no longer a newsworthy event. Over in stupid gun news, we skim some of the more, well, stupid, but it’s impossible to cover each and every one. But that’s why we are for greater gun control, to lower _all_ gun violence, in some countries every gun murder is rare enough to be newsworthy. People like @D_Anconia think they win points by claiming hypocrisy that some gun deaths are more newsworthy than others. He’d have a point if he were not on the side that contributes to them, rather than the side that seeks to lessen and mitigate them. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/722 "2022-06-01T12:59:08Z")
We are? Please tell exactly what rights it is that we’re willing to trade for deaths? As it stands it’s you that’s willing to do that blood trade. Oh wait! I get it, your talking about abortion aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/723 "2022-06-01T13:02:33Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > Saying that you are willing to let people die is immoral. > > Then much of our society simply cannot be allowed to exist–and no civil liberties of any kind really. _That’s where your mind goes from **K9Bfriender’s** statement ?_ At best, it is an abject black/white fallacy: > **[False Dilemma Fallacy](https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-false-dilemma/)** > > Sometimes called the “either-or” fallacy, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides when there are many options or sides. Essentially, a false dilemma presents a “black and white” kind... At worst, it is further evidence that one of your **[dip switches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIP_switch)** is flipped to the wrong setting. It’s like the very worst kind of pathological cognitive rigidity often seen in the deeply religious. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/724 "2022-06-01T13:10:06Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > It’s akin to telling a family whose son was going off to fight WWII, “If you really believe we should be fighting the Nazis, I hope your son is one of the ones who dies to really test your beliefs.” Fighting for gun rights is now like fighting against the Nazis? Boy, the NRA sure did a number on you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/725 "2022-06-01T13:19:45Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I find it absolutely hilarious that you are playing the victim here, while being as disingenuous as you can possibly be. He isn’t. Martin is being fully sincere here, I think. He’s just one of those people whose brain is wired such that he really is completely incapable of _truly_ giving a single fuck about people outside his Monkeysphere. To be fair, MOST humans are like that. That’s our natural state. It takes deep introspection to truly internalize that people you don’t personally know actually matter, and not just in an abstract way. To him, opining that some abstract people must pay with their blood so that we can continue to be a society where guns are idolized is simply a philosophical consideration, to be debated and mulled over. The suggestion that one of those people might be in his Monkeysphere, however, is a direct personal threat, to be met with chest thumping and mock charges in a performative display of might and rage. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/726 "2022-06-01T13:25:44Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > At best, it is an abject black/white fallacy: > > [False Dilemma Fallacy - Excelsior OWL](https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-false-dilemma/) Sorry, but no–he is literally claiming “willing to let people die is immoral.” Actually tell me how our present society can function under those paradigms. There’s no “false dilemma fallacy”, when the dilemma is inherently true. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/727 "2022-06-01T13:26:26Z")
Wow. Just … Wow. ETA: > There is none so blind as he who will not see. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/728 "2022-06-01T13:28:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > He isn’t. Martin is being fully sincere here, I think. He’s just one of those people whose brain is wired such that he really is completely incapable of _truly_ giving a single fuck about people outside his Monkeysphere. Frankly you and the people spouting these tropes are simply delusional. I believe that we make trade offs in society every day and comprehensively, many of these trade offs cost lives. Some of those trade offs are for simple convenience (like higher speed limits), or economic reasons, some are related to fundamental rights (guns, freedom of movement, expression, religion, et al.) I’m not unsympathetic, nor is it fair to say “I don’t give a fuck”, because I’m **fucking honest** that life and society are about trade offs. The anti-gun position anytime this line of discussion starts is to isolate guns as a unique, terrible thing **unrelated to anything else** , support for guns is singular and evil. Meanwhile, I see them as simply one in a large spectrum of rights, all of which have trade offs. You either don’t believe trade offs are part of life, or simply refuse to think about them for anything other than guns. It’s manifestly dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/729 "2022-06-01T13:35:10Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Actually tell me how our present society can function under those paradigms. To which I reply: > The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice. I don’t think this describes an [**SPST switch**](https://www.miwv.com/spst-switch). Wow. Just … Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/730 "2022-06-01T13:37:48Z")
Yet another tired trope, simply dismiss arguments you don’t like as an inaccurate and inartful appeal to debate rules and false claims of logical fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/731 "2022-06-01T13:38:55Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Meanwhile, I see them as simply one in a large spectrum of rights, Yes, while the rest of the world is operating in the visible light you and you crazy friends are over in X-ray territory. America is special. Indeed it is. You’re special. Indeed you are. Born in genocide and steeped in racism and misanthropy. Dreaming of gunning down unworthiness. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/732 "2022-06-01T13:40:33Z")
Ah, a post full of emotional projection and histrionics, certainly did not have enough of those on this topic in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/733 "2022-06-01T13:43:43Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > that life and society are about trade offs. What makes you evil is what you’re trading lives for. Some trades are bad, for example 15,000 deaths a year for the opportunity to play with Jarts is a much worse thing than 15,000 deaths a year to have a vibrant economy fueled by the ability to travel in motor vehicles. What also makes you evil is if the lives you’re trading can actually be saved. If other places have successfully reduced these deaths and you choose not to, that’s evil. Other places (dozens of them) have fewer gun deaths than us by orders of magnitude, but no place has done such amazing things with traffic deaths or alcohol deaths, or tobacco deaths. If they HAD, we would be evil for not trying to reduce our own death rate. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/734 "2022-06-01T13:44:53Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Frankly you and the people spouting these tropes are simply delusional. I believe that we make trade offs in society every day and comprehensively, many of these trade offs cost lives. Some of those trade offs are for simple convenience (like higher speed limits), or economic reasons, some are related to fundamental rights (guns, freedom of movement, expression, religion, et al.) I’m not unsympathetic, nor is it fair to say “I don’t give a fuck”, because I’m **fucking honest** that life and society are about trade offs. > > The anti-gun position anytime this line of discussion starts is to isolate guns as a unique, terrible thing **unrelated to anything else** , support for guns is singular and evil. Meanwhile, I see them as simply one in a large spectrum of rights, all of which have trade offs. You either don’t believe trade offs are part of life, or simply refuse to think about them for anything other than guns. It’s manifestly dishonest. As you can see, lots of rage, very little comprehension of why he is being criticized. It isn’t important to actually address the issues, just to be seen thumping his chest in protection of his Monkeyspheremates. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/735 "2022-06-01T13:49:48Z")
It is unique in that it is the only one of those things on your list that any form of mitigation of the damage it is done to society is fought tooth and nail by people who are willing to trade more death for their “rights”. If a bunch of people are having accidents and dying on a section of interstate, and it is recommended that we lower the speed limit, then most reasonable people would agree, rather than say, “I am willing to see more death on that stretch of interstate rather than reduce my speed.” They wouldn’t make stupid arguments like, “Well, it was 75 MPH when it was built, and so it should stay 75 mph as the founders envisioned.” They wouldn’t say, “Well look over at _that_ stretch of interstate that has a 65 mph speed limit, but has more accidents.” They wouldn’t be saying, “You just hate cars and want to ban them because you are afraid of them!” They wouldn’t be saying, “In fact, I should be able to drive 75 through school zones! Freedumb!!!” But, that’s what the pro-gun advocate arguments boil down to. They don’t care about the cost to society, they aren’t willing to mitigate the damage done by their choices. And yes, I have seen you _claim_ to be for comprehensive gun reform. But you admit that you lie when you turn around and whine and scream and cry at the people who would agree with you on such things, rather than actually work towards your supposed mutual goals. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/736 "2022-06-01T13:58:51Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Yet another tired trope, simply dismiss arguments you don’t like as an inaccurate and inartful appeal to debate rules and false claims of logical fallacy. From the guy that continuously claims posters are wishing death on him. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > histrionics Really getting your money’s worth out of that word, aren’t you. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/737 "2022-06-01T14:04:03Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > What makes you evil is what you’re trading lives for. Some trades are bad, for example 15,000 deaths a year for the opportunity to play with Jarts is a much worse thing than 15,000 deaths a year to have a vibrant economy fueled by the ability to travel in motor vehicles. And I don’t actually object to that nearly as much–because you are admitting that a willingness to trade deaths for some other thing is part of living in a society (be it a fundamental right or even just convenience or economics.) Your decision to view guns as an evil tradeoff, while I disagree with it, is at least a pattern of logical thinking I can accept. What I reject are the people who act that any willingness to trade lives for something else is: 1. A desire to see people killed 2. Unique to only guns > [@Babale](#): > > As you can see, lots of rage, very little comprehension of why he is being criticized. It isn’t important to actually address the issues, just to be seen thumping his chest in protection of his Monkeyspheremates. Sorry but it isn’t a lack of comprehension, I know exactly why. 1. You hate guns and gun owners 2. You got mad someone posted something that suggests gun ownership is a right 3. You (the collective you) decided to deliberately misrepresent plain English to massively misstate my positions, engaged in ad hominem attacks, lies, trolling et cetera. Everything else is frankly window dressing and you know it, but that’s fine. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > It is unique in that it is the only one of those things on your list that any form of mitigation of the damage it is done to society is fought tooth and nail by people who are willing to trade more death for their “rights”. Well that’s not true–we had people fighting tooth and nail to defend their rights to gather in worship, gather in restaurants et cetera during this ongoing pandemic, with many, many resultant deaths. FWIW I can help you out a little bit–guns are different because they scare you, that’s why you view them differently than religious freedom or freedom of assembly. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If a bunch of people are having accidents and dying on a section of interstate, and it is recommended that we lower the speed limit, then most reasonable people would agree, rather than say, “I am willing to see more death on that stretch of interstate rather than reduce my speed.” They wouldn’t make stupid arguments like, “Well, it was 75 MPH when it was built, and so it should stay 75 mph as the founders envisioned.” They wouldn’t say, “Well look over at _that_ stretch of interstate that has a 65 mph speed limit, but has more accidents.” They wouldn’t be saying, “You just hate cars and want to ban them because you are afraid of them!” They wouldn’t be saying, “In fact, I should be able to drive 75 through school zones! Freedumb!!!” And I’m in favor of systemic control and regulation of guns, much like the freeways. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, that’s what the pro-gun advocate arguments boil down to. They don’t care about the cost to society, they aren’t willing to mitigate the damage done by their choices. I would agree people who aren’t me, who hold such crazy views are contemptible. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > And yes, I have seen you _claim_ to be for comprehensive gun reform. But you admit that you lie when you turn around and whine and scream and cry at the people who would agree with you on such things, rather than actually work towards your supposed mutual goals. That did not occur–people chose to snip out one thing I said in a longer thread about gun politics, and make a pit thread about it. I had nothing to do with that. The people involved are notorious theatrical trolls who “get off” on threads like this, they are always looking for a new target. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/738 "2022-06-01T14:05:23Z")
There’s something I’d occasionally offer up during the shit-gibbon’s presidency. Does any of it sound familiar ? > President Trump: You want to keep your job ? DO your job. Do it VERY well. Stop telling us how great you are for several hours a day. Stop blaming others, and stop lying about your past statements and actions. Many of us can read and do have working memories. There’s also videotape evidence of nearly all of it. Stop using the platform to air every single one of your innumerable petty grievances. You’re a straight, white, wealthy, ostensibly Christian male who also happens to be the Leader of the Free World. You really aren’t a victim. Yeah. Wow. Just … Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/739 "2022-06-01T14:06:15Z")
You probably should stop posting. It looks like you’re just randomly copying and pasting nonsense from other posts of yours, that have nothing to do with anything going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/740 "2022-06-01T14:08:57Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Sorry but it isn’t a lack of comprehension, I know exactly why. No, you fucking numbskull. I’m criticizing you because you think “I’m cool with more people dying so I can keep stroking my metal dildo” is a less deplorable sentiment than “I hope the people you’re cool with dying fall within your monkeysphere”. The fact that you get into such a huff over the second statement while praising your integrity for making the first shows exactly the sort of tribal-minded Neanderthal you are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045.md?page=38)