# Pit thread for Martin\_Hyde {He has been BANNED} **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045 "2022-05-24T22:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/741 "2022-06-01T14:09:15Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The anti-gun position anytime this line of discussion starts is to isolate guns as a unique, terrible thing **unrelated to anything else** , support for guns is singular and evil. FFS. _Of course_ anti-gun positions are going to isolate guns as the problem. That’s like getting mad that people keep blaming alcohol for drunk driving related deaths. Sure, lots of other things play into it, but the only thing that remains the same in all DD related deaths is the alcohol. If you can think of another factor that’s common across _every single shooting_ other than guns, I’m sure anti-gun activists will be happy to take a swipe at it as well. You must know how flawed your position is when you’re argument is that people shouldn’t blame guns for gun violence, like they didn’t play a part in it. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You probably should stop posting. No u. Everyone is just replying to you. Stop posting and the thread will fade away. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/742 "2022-06-01T14:11:25Z")
More ad homs and histrionics. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/743 "2022-06-01T14:14:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, that’s what the pro-gun advocate arguments boil down to. They don’t care about the cost to society, they aren’t willing to mitigate the damage done by their choices. There’s potentially a very large social cost to banning guns, too. The purpose of the Second Amendment is to ensure citizens can protect themselves against a tyrannical government. In the event such a thing comes to pass, not having guns could have dire consequences. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/744 "2022-06-01T14:16:56Z")
Funny that no such language actually appears in the Second Amendment isn’t it? _A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed._ ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/745 "2022-06-01T14:18:30Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > There’s potentially a very large social cost to banning guns, too. The purpose of the Second Amendment is to ensure citizens can protect themselves against a tyrannical government. In the event such a thing comes to pass, not having guns could have dire consequences Are you fucking stupid? In case you didn’t notice the US army is significantly better equipped than the Redcoats were. You think some rednecks with ARs are gonna stop a tyrannical government from rolling in with tanks and predator drones? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/746 "2022-06-01T14:19:52Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > More ad homs and histrionics. How dare I attack you by repeating what it was you said! ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/747 "2022-06-01T14:20:05Z")
The same U.S. military that couldn’t handle a bunch of pre-modern tribal people who live in caves in Afghanistan? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/748 "2022-06-01T14:21:18Z")
I’m willing to wager that you’re about the only one here who doesn’t understand the references, doesn’t see your abject logical fallacies, and doesn’t despair over your pathological intellectual dishonesty. Pretty much just you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/749 "2022-06-01T14:22:19Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The same U.S. military that couldn’t handle a bunch of pre-modern tribal people who live in caves in Afghanistan?. Sherman didn’t have much trouble, did he? Oh, I’m sure a redneck with an IED will land an occassional kill, but things didn’t exactly work well for Afghanistan, did they? Now, is a tyrannical US government successfully cracking down on its own citizens a good thing? No, of course not, and we should stop it. But the way to stop that from happening is to prevent tyrannical people from coming to power, and ensuring the system of government and its traditions are robust enough to resist a takeover (something Trump and others have done their best to erode). Not by waving ARs around and screaming about freedom. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/750 "2022-06-01T14:26:49Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Are you fucking stupid? Oh, absolutely. > [@Babale](#): > > In case you didn’t notice the US army is significantly better equipped than the Redcoats were. You think some rednecks with ARs are gonna stop a tyrannical government from rolling in with tanks and predator drones? So what? Tanks and predator drones didn’t do much good against the Taliban, did they? Put the US Army up against a guerrilla force of even moderate capability and I’m betting on the guerrillas every time. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/751 "2022-06-01T14:27:10Z")
It’s also the “arsonist as firefighter” model again. If the same people who are the most ardent gun rights supporters would stop electing fascists and totalitarians … ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/752 "2022-06-01T14:27:33Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The same U.S. military that couldn’t handle a bunch of pre-modern tribal people who live in caves in Afghanistan? Are you implying that armed civilians would be able to take down the US Armed Forces? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/753 "2022-06-01T14:28:09Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > What I reject are the people who act that any willingness to trade lives for something else is: > > 1. A desire to see people killed > 2. Unique to only guns What is unique to guns is that they are both unnecessary for a free and fulfilling existence, and have been successfully managed in dozens of countries similar to ours. Other things we allow to continue do not share these properties, and we actually do put great effort into minimizing the deaths that result from them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/754 "2022-06-01T14:29:52Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Are you implying that armed civilians would be able to take down the US Armed Forces? I think I saw a documentary about that once: > **[Red Dawn](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dawn)** > > Red Dawn is a 1984 American action drama film directed by John Milius with a screenplay by Milius and Kevin Reynolds. The film depicts a fictional World War III centering on an invasion of the United States by an alliance of Soviet, Warsaw Pact, and Latin American states. The story follows a group of teenage guerillas, known as the Wolverines, in Soviet-occupied Colorado. The film stars Patrick Swayze, Charlie Sheen, C. Thomas Howell, Lea Thompson and Jennifer Grey, with supporting roles playe... ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/755 "2022-06-01T14:33:39Z")
Still waiting for that cite that makes it clear that the Second Amendment is actually a Constitutional self destruct button. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/756 "2022-06-01T14:36:47Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Are you implying that armed civilians would be able to take down the US Armed Forces? Thinking more on this, if those wingnuts want to hide out in caves and away from the rest of civilization, i.e. not their own homes and towns, they should go for it. But somehow, one suspects the idea is that people will be able to stay in their comfortable homes in their comfortable towns and still put up an effective resistance against an organized military force by dint of their hodge-podge collection of personal arms. Instead of, you know, living out of caves and having to destroy the very infrastructure that enables their rather high standard of living (by global standards) just to try to keep up. That’s kind of hilarious in a totally delusional self-owning sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/757 "2022-06-01T14:37:27Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > So what? Tanks and predator drones didn’t do much good against the Taliban, did they? I would ask if you were stupid again, but you already admitted that you are. Tanks and predator drones did wonders against the Taliban. The US occupied the country for years. Yes, eventually the US left, because the US doesn’t really care about Afghanistan. Do you think a hypothetical tyrannical US is just going to leave, say, Florida, after a couple decades of low level insurgency? Texas? California? Of course not. The US could have easily occupied Afghanistan in perpetuity, and there isn’t jack squat the Taliban could do about it. If we are talking about core American territory, there’s no chance a tyrannical government is just gonna give up and leave. Maybe if you’re in American Samoa or something, you’d have a chance. But in any US state? Yeah, right. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/758 "2022-06-01T14:39:57Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > But somehow, one suspects the idea is that people will be able to stay in their comfortable homes in their comfortable towns and still put up an effective resistance against an organized military force by dint of their hodge-podge collection of personal arms. Instead of, you know, living out of caves and having to destroy the very infrastructure that enables their rather high standard of living (by global standards) just to try to keep up. One need only look at the American revolution and the winter at Valley Forge to see how ludicrous this idea is. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/759 "2022-06-01T14:41:06Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Funny that no such language actually appears in the Second Amendment isn’t it? I’m no expert on constitutional law, but my interpretation seems to be commonly accepted. I found quite a good summary [here.](https://www.britannica.com/event/McDonald-v-City-of-Chicago) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045/760 "2022-06-01T14:45:50Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > The purpose of the Second Amendment is to ensure citizens can protect themselves against a tyrannical government Good luck with that. If there is a tyrannical government, it’s the gun advocates who will work to bring it about and enforce it. Any guns used _against_ such a government will be laughingly ineffective. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-thread-for-martin-hyde-he-has-been-banned/965045.md?page=39)