# Pit Trolling And Friendly Crumudgeon **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 23, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573 "2021-02-23T18:14:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/81 "2021-02-24T01:38:09Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yes, it was the ATMB post that may or may not have probably but we’ll never know that sealed the deal I believe that the mods have made it quite clear that is was his behavior in ATMB that sealed the deal. To deny that is calling them liars. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/82 "2021-02-24T01:42:42Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It strikes me as who you piss off is the real offense not that you are pissing people off. Oh now, Doc-Oct, if it really struck you that hard you’d have lumps. Well… more lumps. If it’s the “we’ll never know” part that gets your goat… well maybe that explains some your hatred of the world. I may not be a medical professional like you, but may I recommend the Decaf? They say its tasty. You’re Welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/83 "2021-02-24T01:44:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > > [@What\_Exit](#): > > > > It was also insisting on the lie in his ATMB thread. Please don’t overlook that part. You’re stating only half at most of the issue that led to the banning. > > As I said in the banning thread, that was an exacerbating factor. Even though the correct explanation had been given to him in the Pit thread and the ATMB thread, he made no attempt to justify his interpretation or refute the alternative explanation. He simply repeated the lie. That convinced us beyond any doubt that was not posting in good faith. > [@octopus](#): > > Yes, it was the ATMB post that may or may not have probably but we’ll never know that sealed the deal but it was the subject of the OP in the pit that started the chain of events. We’ll never know? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/84 "2021-02-24T01:48:53Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@octopus](#): > > All that is off topic. I’ve participated in these sort of threads sufficiently, including cites from the administration with rules clarifications, to know that cites and the demands for cites are farcical or worse. > > I don’t care about formally proving anything. I’m expressing my opinion in the appropriate forum. While there is a valid point to be made that we don’t want sea-lioning in ATMB, there is also a valid point that we don’t want baseless accusations either. There are some things that are just opinions, and for those you are certainly free to express your opinion. But, if you make an accusation or assertion, you need to be able to back something like that up. For example, if you say the moderation staff is biased against people with animals in their avatars, you need to show some examples of this bias, otherwise it’s just baseless accusations. If someone asks for an example so that the issue can be discussed, you can’t just dismiss it as just your opinion. Otherwise there can be no discussion about the issue and there is therefore no reason to continue the thread. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/85 "2021-02-24T01:49:30Z")
I think it’s worth noting (haven’t seen it from this POV yet) that the post in question was also, in effect, a racist joke. Or a joke about racist jokes. I mean, someone who thinks it’s funny to make a joke about the n-word probably comes close to the generic policy against hate speech that applies even in the Pit, _right_? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/86 "2021-02-24T01:52:57Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > Doc-Oct Call people by their proper user name, please. It is not clear what your intention was here, but even if the name substitution was intended to be cutesy or clever or otherwise harmless, it could be taken as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/87 "2021-02-24T02:32:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yes, it was the ATMB post that may or may not have probably but we’ll never know **Miller** has stated that was the deciding factor for him. We waited for his input before we took action, since as you say the incident began in the Pit. So there’s no “probably” about it. Now you know. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/88 "2021-02-24T05:32:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It reminds me of the Huey banning […]. It strikes me as who you piss off is the real offense not that you are pissing people off. Given **Huey** and **Curmudgeon** couldn’t _be_ more far apart on the political spectrum, it sounds like it’s not a good idea to piss off … _anyone_. Or, at least, the multitudinous middle. That’s hardly some deep insight - of course trolls are going to want to piss off as many people as possible. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/89 "2021-02-24T12:30:34Z")
Following some discreet inquiry, I can assure everyone that cop porn is a thing. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/90 "2021-02-24T12:36:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > All that is off topic. I’ve participated in these sort of threads sufficiently, including cites from the administration with rules clarifications, to know that cites and the demands for cites are farcical or worse. The dog ate my homework; please accept this dog as payment in kind. > [@octopus](#): > > I don’t care about formally proving anything. This is common knowledge; no reminders are required. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/91 "2021-02-24T12:56:13Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Following some discreet inquiry, I can assure everyone that cop porn is a thing. No inquiry required - [Rule 34 applies](https://xkcd.com/305/). Yes, that’s SFW. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/92 "2021-02-24T16:30:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t care about formally proving anything Thank you for your honesty. I shall remember this when viewing future posts. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/93 "2021-02-24T17:03:34Z")
Just to clarify, if he wrote “sounded like he said the N-word” instead of “said the N-word” he wouldn’t have been banned? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/94 "2021-02-24T17:04:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Just to clarify, if he wrote “sounded like he said the N-word” instead of “said the N-word” he wouldn’t be banned? I think that’s possible. But it would be even a _more_ pointless observation and probably worth a warning. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/95 "2021-02-24T17:11:20Z")
If he had, he wouldn’t have been banned. Maybe not a warning either as **Miller** is very easy going about not giving out warnings in the Pit. If he didn’t start the ATMB thread and effectively double-downed, he would not have been banned and again probably not been warned. If he had been a longer term poster and not apparently a troll or trock, he would have got off with a suspension. Trying to play the victim card over a temporarily closed thread didn’t help his case either. He had also made other posts in other threads that had at least some of the mods suspicious about him before the ill-fated pair of threads. Oddly enough, not political posts. These decisions are not bright line events. A lot is taken into account. Many factors end up in play. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/96 "2021-02-24T17:16:30Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > These decisions are not bright line events. This one seems bright line. If you are called on a case like this, mis-attribution of a hot word, don’t double down on it. There’s a difference between “sounds like” and “is”. It’s a way to establish the intent necessary to label something as ‘trolling’. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/97 "2021-02-24T17:35:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > This one seems bright line. If you are called on a case like this, mis-attribution of a hot word, don’t double down on it. There’s a difference between “sounds like” and “is”. It’s a way to establish the intent necessary to label something as ‘trolling’. Yes, with such a loaded word, it’s the difference between pointing and laughing at an inadvertent innocent mishap (certainly fair game in the Pit, even if it’s classless directed against someone with a past speech impediment), and blatant lying that someone was caught _using_ a racist slur. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/98 "2021-02-24T17:56:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It’s as if the admins are saying, “Pigs are welcome to wallow in the mud!”…but then ban a pig for wallowing in mud that is _14 inches deep, as opposed to 13 inches deep._ Apparently, yes, you can wallow in the mud in the Pit, but not ATMB. That’s why he got in trouble. Again, this simply proves the Pit is a bad idea. But I guess that is a uphill battle. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/99 "2021-02-24T17:59:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Again, this simply proves the Pit is a bad idea. Well, the _consequences_ don’t prove that. A lying troll got banned. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573/100 "2021-02-24T18:10:24Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Well, the _consequences_ don’t prove that. A lying troll got banned. An insistent, lying **upstart** troll got banned. For insisting and lying over and over and over, even after being told to STFUp. No loss. Lying trocks always come back-we’ll be forced to endure the curmudgeon again in some thinly veiled form. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-trolling-and-friendly-crumudgeon/933573.md?page=6)