# Pitbull scenario **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 1, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894 "2011-09-01T22:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/21 "2011-09-02T00:54:06Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I’ve worked with animals for over 10 years doing very unpleasant things to them, and pit bulls are the one breed that _hasn’t_ tried to bite me. And not because I haven’t worked with many of them, either; one of my former practices had a _huge_ percentage of pit patients because we were next to the projects and ghetto and a got most of the business from the local drug dealers and dog fighters. The thing you have to keep in mind is that your fighting breeds were bred to be aggressive toward other animals but docile toward humans, so they would perform in the ring but be safe to handle. > > Now, if they had a chow running loose, I’d be leery as hell–those dogs are very, _very_ prone to unfriendliness and aggression toward everyone except their immediate household. A rescue I used to work with had at least two vaccination clinics every year - usually held right before the deadline for county licenses. It was a very good fundraiser, plus an inexpensive way for people to get the required vaccinations for the license. We mostly held them in the ghetto parts of the city, where the dog of choice is almost always a pit bull, or pit bull x mastiff. Usually intact, often untrained/outdoor/chained dogs. So in the four years I volunteered, we saw several thousand dogs and a few cats (highest number during a single weekend clinic was about 900.) Easily 90% of the dogs people brought in were pit bulls. During that entire time, only two dogs tried to bite me or anyone else working or volunteering. As God is my witness: one was a gray toy poodle with painted toenails carried by its owner; that little bastard tried to nail everyone that came near it. The other was a totally out-of-control husky that went for its owner, went for me and just missed my arm (but ripped my sweatshirt.) The thousands of pit bulls? Just fine. Quite a few were interested in picking fights with other dogs there - they are pit bulls after all - but not a single one gave any human a hard time. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/22 "2011-09-02T00:54:33Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > If it was me, with small children, then I would leave. Then you are ignorant and should be better informed. Pit bulls are no more dangerous than any other breed. > [@Zsofia](#): > > If it were _any_ dog I’d ask “Is he okay with kids?” THIS is the correct response. Frankly, I’m much more nervous with children around my poodle-mix, or seeing children around spaniels (which are very snappy dogs) than pits. The question should be, has the dog been properly exposed to, and socialized with, children. And frankly, the question should also be - how well socialized are your children to dogs? If your kid is going to run around screaming, poke things in my dog’s eyes, get up in her face, stomp on her feet, etc (all of which I’ve had to deal with many times from cousin’s children regarding my dogs) then frankly, I’ll put the dog in the bedroom for her own protection. > [@sparky\_1](#): > > Note: I don’t have kids. > > The reason I ask is from reading a thread on another board in which people were debating whether pitbulls are dangerous or not. I’m not really interested in debating that, but rather am curious about public perception of the breed. > > For me, I have heard too many horror stories of pitbull attacks. So, even if the acquaintance said the dog was good with children, I’d still leave, because my perception is they are dangerous, despite many people saying how loyal they are (which I think is part of the danger). That, and I think I could very easy wrestle away most dog breeds, while a pitbull seems like a dog with a lot more power than I could handle. Maybe you shouldn’t start a thread like this if you’re not interested in that debate. The reason you hear all those horror stories is just that - they’re horror stories. The public perception of pit bulls is entirely created and fostered by the media. 90% of the “pit bull” attacks are another breed entirely. I used to do dog rescue and have worked closely with animal control for many years. As any active animal control agent, and most of them will tell you a call to collect a stray or abused pit doesn’t worry them. Calls to collect German Shepherds, Chows and Shar-peis are what they dread, because someone’s going to get bitten. Also, pit bulls have no more jaw strength than any other dog their size. That whole “locking jaw” thing is just another media myth. Pits have been bred in the past to be dog aggressive. Not people aggressive. In fact, in traditional pit fighting, the handlers are **in the ring** with the dogs, and break them apart by hand using a “breaking stick.” You could not do that with a dog who would be likely to turn on you when overstimulated. People-aggressive pits are the result abuse, or of terrible/careless breeding in response to the media mythology. It’s a vicious circle - because the dogs are now perceived as dangerous, they’re collected by the type of people most likely to try and mold the dog into exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/23 "2011-09-02T00:59:27Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > You would be amazed at how many “pit bull attacks” are actually done by dogs that are not pit bulls. Check out this quiz and see what you think is a pit bull and be surprised how wrong you are. > > [http://www.chakoalition.com/breedtest.html](http://www.chakoalition.com/breedtest.html) Thanks, I’m uneducated about pitbulls and will read through your link. Weren’t bloodhounds once considered ‘bad’? I have a picture of me around 5 years old pulling on a sock held in my bloodhound’s mouth (Charlie). He bit my Mom once when my brother’s friend came home. He basically went nuts and was uncontrollable. But around everyone in the house, he was very mellow and sweet. I think the problem is similar (and similarly untrained dogs) and their strength. I think their strength seems to be the issue, more than anything. But normal owners swear by their sweetness and loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/24 "2011-09-02T01:04:39Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/25 "2011-09-02T01:07:07Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Well, this will go to the pit quickly. > > You are living in a fucking dream world with fluffy clouds and sunshine with fucking radial points and a smile. > > A pitbull can bite and hold with incredible force, which was bred into them. Most dogs lack that. > > If a chow were to bite my theoretical child, then that child would live. > > If a pitbull would, I’d be hard pressed to release it. No, I’m not living in any kind of dream world, in fact. I’m informed, have worked with animal control and dog rescue, and lived with many kinds of dogs for many years. In fact, I have been bitten by dogs, I have broken up dog fights, and I have treated the wounds of dogs who’ve been mauled in a veterinary capacity. It’s always fun to see someone who’s admitted they’re ignorant on a topic pretend to school you. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/26 "2011-09-02T01:07:58Z")
Read the Bad Rap link posted upthread too! ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/27 "2011-09-02T01:09:54Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > Then you are ignorant and should be better informed. Pit bulls are no more dangerous than any other breed. > > THIS is the correct response. Frankly, I’m much more nervous with children around my poodle-mix, or seeing children around spaniels (which are very snappy dogs) than pits. > > The question should be, has the dog been properly exposed to, and socialized with, children. And frankly, the question should also be - how well socialized are your children to dogs? If your kid is going to run around screaming, poke things in my dog’s eyes, get up in her face, stomp on her feet, etc (all of which I’ve had to deal with many times from cousin’s children regarding my dogs) then frankly, I’ll put the dog in the bedroom for her own protection. > > Maybe you shouldn’t start a thread like this if you’re not interested in that debate. > > The reason you hear all those horror stories is just that - they’re horror stories. The public perception of pit bulls is entirely created and fostered by the media. 90% of the “pit bull” attacks are another breed entirely. > > I used to do dog rescue and have worked closely with animal control for many years. As any active animal control agent, and most of them will tell you a call to collect a stray or abused pit doesn’t worry them. Calls to collect German Shepherds, Chows and Shar-peis are what they dread, because someone’s going to get bitten. > > Also, pit bulls have no more jaw strength than any other dog their size. That whole “locking jaw” thing is just another media myth. > > Pits have been bred in the past to be dog aggressive. Not people aggressive. In fact, in traditional pit fighting, the handlers are **in the ring** with the dogs, and break them apart by hand using a “breaking stick.” You could not do that with a dog who would be likely to turn on you when overstimulated. People-aggressive pits are the result abuse, or of terrible/careless breeding in response to the media mythology. It’s a vicious circle - because the dogs are now perceived as dangerous, they’re collected by the type of people most likely to try and mold the dog into exactly that. My interest was in perception. My perception is that pitbulls are dogs that are very strong and bite to hold, and no amount of human strength can remove them. I’m interested in better educating myself, if possible. So you see, perception does not equal reality (which I stated upthread). ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/28 "2011-09-02T01:10:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, this will go to the pit quickly. > > You are living in a fucking dream world with fluffy clouds and sunshine with fucking radial points and a smile. > > A pitbull can bite and hold with incredible force, which was bred into them. Most dogs lack that. > > If a chow were to bite my theoretical child, then that child would live. > > If a pitbull would, I’d be hard pressed to release it. Oh _that’s_ what was deleted. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/29 "2011-09-02T01:11:14Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Thanks, I’m uneducated about pitbulls and will read through your link. > > Weren’t bloodhounds once considered ‘bad’? I have a picture of me around 5 years old pulling on a sock held in my bloodhound’s mouth (Charlie). He bit my Mom once when my brother’s friend came home. He basically went nuts and was uncontrollable. But around everyone in the house, he was very mellow and sweet. I think the problem is similar (and similarly untrained dogs) and their strength. > > I think their strength seems to be the issue, more than anything. > > But normal owners swear by their sweetness and loyalty. Bloodhounds are so called because once upon a time they could only be owned by people of royal birth/noble blood ie: of the (blue)blood. Thus, they were Blooded or Blood’s Hounds –\> Bloodhounds. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/30 "2011-09-02T01:11:20Z")
Assuming your host knew you were bringing small children to the dinner party and still had the dog out and about, I would stay and enjoy the evening. If dog and children are well behaved, there should be no problems. If you sprung small children on your host/hostess, then probably best to leave. Spoken from the point of view of a dog-owner who is not over fond of surprise visits from small children at adult events. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/31 "2011-09-02T01:12:09Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > No, I’m not living in any kind of dream world, in fact. I’m informed, have worked with animal control and dog rescue, and lived with many kinds of dogs for many years. In fact, I have been bitten by dogs, I have broken up dog fights, and I have treated the wounds of dogs who’ve been mauled in a veterinary capacity. > > It’s always fun to see someone who’s admitted they’re ignorant on a topic pretend to school you. Oh man! You caught that! I’m trying not to debate whether they’re good or bad, but just perception! ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/32 "2011-09-02T01:12:28Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > My interest was in perception. > > My perception is that pitbulls are dogs that are very strong and bite to hold, and no amount of human strength can remove them. > > I’m interested in better educating myself, if possible. > > So you see, perception does not equal reality (which I stated upthread). Fair enough. Here’s another good link that does go into good detail on the whole “jaw lock” and bite strength issue: [http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html](http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html) ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/33 "2011-09-02T01:14:57Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > Fair enough. > > Here’s another good link that does go into good detail on the whole “jaw lock” and bite strength issue: [http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html](http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html) Haven’t read it yet, but would a site with “pitbull” in the domain name really have a balanced view? ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/34 "2011-09-02T01:16:17Z")
Choo, chooooo! Pitbull train going off the tracks with spark! as the conductor! ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/35 "2011-09-02T01:18:18Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > My interest was in perception. > > My perception is that pitbulls are dogs that are very strong and bite to hold, and no amount of human strength can remove them. > > I’m interested in better educating myself, if possible. > > So you see, perception does not equal reality (which I stated upthread). I commend you for (hopefully) staying open-minded. Pit bulls are medium-sized dogs, it is very possible to break them - or any dogs - apart if you know what you are doing. I’m a smallish middle-aged woman and have broken two adult male Rottweilers apart by myself - dogs that typically weigh about twice what an average pit bull weighs. Pit bulls (and many terriers and several other breeds) tend to be quite game, high-prey-drive and determined; a responsible owner recognises this and manages their dogs safely. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the pit bull-owning demographic is horribly irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/36 "2011-09-02T01:39:13Z")
Pits are the current victims of the “bad-ass breed” faddists. People who want to terrorize other people vicariously through their “mean” dogs hear that such-and-such a breed is a man-killer and they’ll buy one from an unethical breeder. They then mistreat and mismanage the dog, which often ends up adding to the breed’s “aggressive dog” statistics. Other breeds that have been ruined by these jerks include Rottweilers, Bull Terriers, Doberman Pinschers, Dogos Argentinos, German Shepherd Dogs, (English) Bulldogs, and many mastiff breeds. When I meet a dog of a breed popular with “bad-asses”, the most important factor in whether I trust the dog is the owner’s knowledge of the breed and their reason for owning one. If the owner is informed, knowledgeable and responsible, I have nothing to fear from their dog. If the owner is not a responsible dog owner, I leave. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/37 "2011-09-02T01:54:50Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Haven’t read it yet, but would a site with “pitbull” in the domain name really have a balanced view? Yes, when it comes to scientific facts. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/38 "2011-09-02T01:59:55Z")
BTW, I just want to make a small correction to something I said earlier. When I indicate that a pit bull is “just like any other dog,” what I emphatically do **not** mean is that a pit bull is exactly the same as having a chihuahua, a doberman, a border collie, a poodle. Every single individual breed was formed for some purpose, deliberately bred in order to do **something.** Herd sheep, watch children, sit on laps, retrieve game, etc. So pit bulls are not “exactly like” other breeds, or we wouldn’t bother having breeds. But, like any other breed, it’s not hard to research them, and take the facts of their breeding into consideration when you make the choice to share your life with them. Their physiognomy as far as bite strength, magical locking jaws, jaws able to dis-articulate so they can chew WHILE locking on… in those ways they’re exactly like other dogs. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/39 "2011-09-02T02:01:46Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Yes, when it comes to scientific facts. Umm, no, biased facts. Kinda like all the 9/11.org sites out there. And again, this train is heading fast toward that blown-out bridge! ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/40 "2011-09-02T02:06:29Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > BTW, I just want to make a small correction to something I said earlier. > > When I indicate that a pit bull is “just like any other dog,” what I emphatically do **not** mean is that a pit bull is exactly the same as having a chihuahua, a doberman, a border collie, a poodle. > > Every single individual breed was formed for some purpose, deliberately bred in order to do **something.** Herd sheep, watch children, sit on laps, retrieve game, etc. > > So pit bulls are not “exactly like” other breeds, or we wouldn’t bother having breeds. But, like any other breed, it’s not hard to research them, and take the facts of their breeding into consideration when you make the choice to share your life with them. > > Their physiognomy as far as bite strength, magical locking jaws, jaws able to dis-articulate so they can chew WHILE locking on… in those ways they’re exactly like other dogs. So basically, the term “pitbull” dumps many breeds (or better, mutts) into one basket? That seems to be the case, in that it seems a much looser name for a dog’s breed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894.md?page=3)