# Pitbull scenario **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 1, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894 "2011-09-01T22:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/81 "2011-09-06T09:12:12Z")
Knock it off, you guys! I’m drowning in cute over here! ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/82 "2011-09-06T14:37:00Z")
Like others have said, I’d be cautious of any dog - I don’t have a problem with dogs, but I don’t trust dog owners until they have shown that they are good dog owners! Too many people consider their dog an accessory and haven’t trained it right. Your dog should not be jumping on guests, for example, and should come to you when called, at least most of the time. But then, if I went over someone’s house and their dog was jumping on me the whole time, I’d probably never go back again anyway. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/83 "2011-09-06T15:44:00Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Weren’t bloodhounds once considered ‘bad’? > . Not only bloodhounds, but German shepherds, Dobermans, bull terriers (those “Spuds McKenzie” landshark-looking fellers), Airedales and Rottweilers have all been the “scary monster-dog” breed of the moment sometime in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/84 "2011-09-06T15:49:31Z")
You people are idiots. This thread is typical talking-past-each-other when the obvious question remains unasked: What are they serving? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/85 "2011-09-06T18:28:46Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > The weird thing about the scenario in the OP (which I now recognize was just a thin veneer for the “how do you personally perceive pit bulls” question) is that there’s a dinner party, an invitation, and then the dog/children issue. > > 1. If the host invited you and NOT your children, you should turn around and leave regardless of the dog. > > 2. If the host invited you AND your children, and his dog is not child-safe, then he’s a complete jackass, and you should leave. > > 3. If the host invited you AND your children, and then left the dog to roam, then you might presume that the host didn’t invite you in order that your children can be hurt and his dog taken away and killed, so the dog is likely safe for children. > > Both children and dog should, of course, treat one another gently and with respect until they’ve got boundaries established, and then they should be able to play to their heart’s content. And of course, the adults involved should monitor this to make sure no one’s been knocked over and no one’s had an ear pulled. Saved me a lot of typing. I’ll add that it is OK for the parents to ask if the dog is trained to handle children and for the dog owner to ask if the children are trained to handle a dog. Unless the dog or child is foaming at the mouth or is covered in blood. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/86 "2011-09-06T18:32:33Z")
Any dog or animal can suddenly go off for any or no reason. I would not stay if the dog wasn’t it in another room, with the door closed. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/87 "2011-09-06T18:38:16Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Any dog or animal can suddenly go off for any or no reason. I would not stay if the dog wasn’t it in another room, with the door closed. So just a general fear of dogs then, nothing to do with breed? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/88 "2011-09-06T18:47:38Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Any dog or animal can suddenly go off for any or no reason. I would not stay if the dog wasn’t it in another room, with the door closed. Humans are animals, and they sometimes go off for no reason. And humans can do a lot more damage in a short time than a dog. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/89 "2011-09-06T18:54:36Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Humans are animals, and they sometimes go off for no reason. And humans can do a lot more damage in a short time than a dog. Really? You’re going to make that argument? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/90 "2011-09-06T19:04:54Z")
You don’t know Telemark’s friends. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/91 "2011-09-06T19:08:11Z")
I’m not sure when the [disturbing stories](http://www.click2houston.com/news/29086897/detail.html) will ever stop coming in. Based on ‘personal observations’, I suppose this is something everyone can argue about until the cows come home. It is though something I’ll always play it safe with and, therefore, never feel one ounce of regret about. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/92 "2011-09-06T19:09:44Z")
I think it’s totally valid to just be afraid of dogs regardless of breed, or from a breed with good reason. For instance, I’m extremely uncomfortable around black labs. Why? Because the worst (and most unexpected! Both times from behind and I wasn’t pestering them!) dogs bites I’ve ever received have been from black labs. I understand that most labs are high-strung but basically friendly dogs, but I am always wary around black labs simply because I’ve been attacked twice by them with no direct provocation. I say directly because clearly SOMETHING I did pissed those animals off, animals are not random, but I don’t know what it was and couldn’t have avoided it. So I think it’s perfectly valid to just say “I’m afraid a dog might flip out on me so I don’t want to be around them,” even if that particular dog is a marshmallow. Both the black labs who bit me were non-strays, and their owners both expressed shock (whether feigned or not - in one case I know for a fact that dog bit other people) when the dog attacked me. That’s not the same as saying “I think all black labs are evil and should be controlled/destroyed/outlawed.” I just don’t like to be around them due to my own direct experiences, not media saturation. If I’m walking my pit and I encounter someone who’s had bad direct experience with a pit (or even with a white dog - I’ve got a cousin who’s terrified of Dalmations after one almost took his face off as a child and my white-pit-with-black-spots terrifies him by association) I’m not offended by their fear. They have valid reason. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/93 "2011-09-06T19:14:39Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I’m not sure when the [disturbing stories](http://www.click2houston.com/news/29086897/detail.html) will ever stop coming in. > > Based on ‘personal observations’, I suppose this is something everyone can argue about until the cows come home. It is though something I’ll always play it safe with and, therefore, never feel one ounce of regret about. That article discusses a “100 pound pit bull.” Pit bulls do NOT come in 100 pound versions. They are medium sized dogs that are usually around 40-50 pounds. I had an 80 pound pit/boxer mix at one time. There is also no picture of the dog with which to judge. This is _exactly_ what we’ve been talking about. The media identifies the dog as a “pit bull” and makes a much bigger deal about it than if the attack was from a non-bully breed or mix. Also, sad as it is, infants should _never_ be left with _any_ dog unattended. Dogs don’t generalize, and there’s no reason they should recognize an infant as a human being - they look and act like prey or another small pet at best. I love my dogs and would never ever leave them unattended with an infant - not the poodle-mix, not the pit, not my mother’s Schipperke, not ever. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/94 "2011-09-06T21:14:50Z")
A 100 lb pit bull is not a pit bull; they don’t get that large. Maybe a pit bull crossed with something else (crossing them with bull or English mastiffs isn’t uncommon around here.) And if a dog is even slightly bully-looking and a mix, the media invariably reports it as a pit bull or pit bull mix. Instead of, say, a Labrador retriever mix. I cannot find the poll now, but shortly after [Isabelle Dinoire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabelle_Dinoire) had her face ripped off by her Labrador retriever and had the world’s first face transplant, an astonishingly high number of respondents to the poll chose “pit bull” as the responsible breed. As I recall, some news reports incorrectly identified the dog as a pit bull initially. As much of a dog geek as I am, I do put people ahead of my dogs and realise that some people are afraid of them. Someone who is unsure around dogs comes to my house? My four dogs (black Lab, Rottweiler, JRT x cattle dog and pit bull x Lab foster dog) are in crates or out in the yard. I’ve owned or fostered several dogs that I considered rock-solid around children and joked that these were dogs I’d be comfortable leaving in a room-full of crawling babies unattended all day without a qualm. But would I ever actually do that - oh hell no, not with any dog of any size or breed. As savvy as I consider myself about dogs and dog behaviour, no way in hell would I risk a child’s safety or life by leaving them unattended around a carnivorous, prey-driven species with teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/95 "2011-09-06T21:36:41Z")
I adopted a pit bull mix in May and he is, hands-down, the sweetest, funniest, most loving dog I’ve ever had. Prior to this I was very firmly against ever having a pit bull and/or mix because some idiotic jerk let his dangerous PBs loose in a public park and they nearly killed one of my labs (about 10 years ago). I am still on guard when I’m taking one of the dogs for a walk and someone has a certain-looking PB off-leash: cropped ears, intact male, docked tail, enormous choke chain, and a stupid “leash” like a commercial chain are all things that scare me. Yes, it may be the sweetest pup in the world (like my own guy), it’s the owner that scares me and I’m not taking chances that the dog lives up to it’s fighting appearance. A bit more on-topic: I’ve been bitten by a black lab, a Pomeranian, and my own border collie (an accident, but _ouch_). I’d watch my kids around any dog – dogs are animals and they have animal reactions. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/96 "2011-09-06T21:53:59Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > I adopted a pit bull mix in May and he is, hands-down, the sweetest, funniest, most loving dog I’ve ever had. Prior to this I was very firmly against ever having a pit bull and/or mix because some idiotic jerk let his dangerous PBs loose in a public park and they nearly killed one of my labs (about 10 years ago). > > I am still on guard when I’m taking one of the dogs for a walk and someone has a certain-looking PB off-leash: cropped ears, intact male, **docked tail** , enormous choke chain, and a stupid “leash” like a commercial chain are all things that scare me. Yes, it may be the sweetest pup in the world (like my own guy), it’s the owner that scares me and I’m not taking chances that the dog lives up to it’s fighting appearance. > > A bit more on-topic: I’ve been bitten by a black lab, a Pomeranian, and my own border collie (an accident, but _ouch_). I’d watch my kids around any dog – dogs are animals and they have animal reactions. Where do you live that docking a pit bull’s tail is the norm? I have never heard of this. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/97 "2011-09-06T22:09:09Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > T > Also, pit bulls have no more jaw strength than any other dog their size. I think I’ll need a cite to even consider that. Look at the muscles on a pit bull’s head – do you think they are just for show? My friend had a pit bull – very nice dog – who, urged on his owner, took out a sapling as thick as my arm that was at the end of my driveway. He literally (not in one bite, mind you) bit the tree in half, over the course of a minute or two. I was amazed by the strength of that dog. I’ve never seen my German Shepherd do anything remotely close to that. As far as the question, I would certainly trust the dog around kids. Every pit bull I’ve met as been over-the-top friendly, which makes sense based on their breeding. I would not trust a pit bull around my dog. Dogs misinterpret other dogs all the time, things can escalate, and I wouldn’t want to take a chance on my dog being seriously harmed. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/98 "2011-09-06T22:13:41Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > I think I’ll need a cite to even consider that. Look at the muscles on a pit bull’s head – do you think they are just for show? I cited for this earlier in the thread, but again: > [@Feyrat](#): > > Fair enough. > > Here’s another good link that does go into good detail on the whole “jaw lock” and bite strength issue: [http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html](http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html) "“Pit Bulls have more bite pressure per square inch (PSI) than any other breed.” This is absolutely false. Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch. Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE. The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328. Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the highest on record for any domestic canine. What happened to the supposed 10,000 pounds PSI pressure that the breed supposedly has??? It’s a MYTH, pure and simple. THERE HAVE NEVER been ANY TESTS done to prove that the APBT has bite pressure PSI higher than what has been tested by Dr. Barr." Here’s the abstract: [Measurement of bite force in dogs: a pilot study - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9693626?ordinalpos=17&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/99 "2011-09-06T22:39:43Z")
I hesitate to post this because it’s fairly sensational - bear in mind that the pit bull here is quite a bit smaller than the GSD and the Rottweiler is the largest dog of the three, so of _course_ it’s going to have the hardest bite: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/vbwMs7cjK0Y/hqdefault.jpg "Bite force competition. Pitbull, Rottweiler, and Shepherd") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwMs7cjK0Y) Many working dogs and terriers - including JRTs, Airedales, Staffies, Filas, dogos, etc - are going to be quite game and determined when it comes to bite and hold. That’s attitude and breeding, not some inherent physical trait. Hardest biting dog I’ve ever known is my 25 lb JRT-cattle dog cross. She doesn’t know whether to herd things or kill them, LOL…she has competing breed traits going. And she is a hard, hard little dog. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/100 "2011-09-06T22:46:40Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > I cited for this earlier in the thread, but again: > Testing has shown that the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch. > Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative > test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit > Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE. > > The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The > highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328. > Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the > highest on record for any domestic canine. Wait a minute… So the domestic dog (including, I assume, all the yappy cat-sized ones) AVERAGES about 320 lb/inch… but this guy’s test showed a German Shepherd and a Pit Bull to measure quite a bit LOWER than average? With a Rott barely above average? What exactly is keeping the average up at 320 – a Bijon Frise?? Doesn’t that seem strange that they state the average as 320, yet this guy’s test seems to be consistently scoring the dogs with powerful bites lower than average? I’m not sure what his methodology (seems force would vary quite a bit anyway, depending on how aroused the dog was) was, but these results don’t really seem in accordance with common sense or anecdotal experience (^^I’m telling you, I saw a Pit chew a tree in half!). I didn’t see a link to the actual study on that page…did I miss one? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894.md?page=6)