# Pitbull scenario **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 1, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894 "2011-09-01T22:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/121 "2011-09-07T17:43:42Z")
[The absolute HORRORS of letting a pit bull be around kids. Warning-Disturbing pictures of children with the NANNY DOG.](http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=676) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/122 "2011-09-07T17:51:27Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > The pro pitters on this board I know you’re using shorthand for a longer concept, but couldn’t this effort be characterized as “fighting ignorance” and not specifically pro-any breed? > [@Telemark](#): > > If you read the articles carefully, you’ll find that it often isn’t the owners or animal control identifying the breeds. Victims and police aren’t notably better at identifying breeds than random people off the street. Newspapers and TV stations know that “pit bull attacks child” gets eyeballs, so that’s what they go with. > > Read what the CDC said about the study that they backed off from. ID’ing breeds involved in attacks is a problem because the people claiming to identify the breed don’t know what they are talking about. Furthermore, I’m not sure “people in distress who are angry” make the most scientific identifications possible. Personally, I see a lot of parallels between “breedism” and racism. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/123 "2011-09-07T18:04:08Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I missed this the first time around. > > I’m not sure why that’s “ridiculous,” it’s a widely accepted understanding. Most people say that “Pit Bull” is not a breed, but a grouping of closely-related breeds. A notable exception is Diane Jessup, a well-known author and breeder, who maintains that “pit bull” exclusively refers to the American Pit Bull Terrier. But I seldom see people expressly agree with that. It;s not widely-accepted everywhere, though. In the UK, pit bulls are banned, but that means American Pit Bulls, not Staffies or English Bull Terriers. ‘Bull terrier’ would make sense as a general classification, not ‘pit bull.’ That’d be like calling all Spaniels ‘Springers.’ [/quote] edited to add: Lately, it seems like chows getting singled out instead of JRTS. I don’t know chows from personal experience, but I’m inclined to think they’re no more guilty than the other breeds we’ve seen accused. I’m against Breed-Specific Legislation, not just Anti-Pit-Bull Legislation. [/QUOTE] I wonder if they’re getting more popular as a breed? I know I see far more of them around now than when I was a kid. Same with Dachshunds. I guess it’s easier to blame an easily-identifiable breed than mutts. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/124 "2011-09-07T18:16:56Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > It;s not widely-accepted everywhere, though. In the UK, pit bulls are banned, but that means American Pit Bulls, not Staffies or English Bull Terriers. Eh. Breed-Specific Legislation (BSL) is notorious for its imprecise use of breed terminology. In America, BSL tends to be broadly-written to catch as many dogs as the police feel necessary, and now often includes very loose terms like “pit-bull-type dogs” or “muscular dogs with blocky heads,” and increasingly permits untrained police officers to determine whether a given dog qualifies as a “pit-bull-type dog” – and notoriously _excludes_ breed identification by the veterinarian of the dog in question, as a deliberate tactic to overcome vets writing “mixed breed” on certificates to protect pit bulls. I personally think most BSL is “feel good” law passed in haste by legislators who do not put much effort or thought into the process. I wouldn’t cite it as an authority on breeds. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > ‘Bull terrier’ would make sense as a general classification, not ‘pit bull.’ That’d be like calling all Spaniels ‘Springers.’ In the US, ‘bull terrier’ is used to mean [this specific breed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_terrier). ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/125 "2011-09-07T21:30:02Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > Actually, the bad rap has been earned honestly. Pit bulls are over represented when it comes to dogs killing people and inflicting serious bites. It doesn’t surprise me that despite so many facts getting in the way you and others choose to hold this opinion - that is why the ‘bad rap’ exists. But your profile says you are a veterinarian so I am a little bit surprised at that. You are entitled to your opinion but it is contrary to the facts and evidence. I would be hesitant to have a dog checked out at a vet clinic who believes that any dog, by virtue of it’s race alone, is likely a vicious killer. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/126 "2011-09-07T21:49:50Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Eh. Breed-Specific Legislation (BSL) is notorious for its imprecise use of breed terminology. In America, BSL tends to be broadly-written to catch as many dogs as the police feel necessary, and now often includes very loose terms like “pit-bull-type dogs” or “muscular dogs with blocky heads,” and increasingly permits untrained police officers to determine whether a given dog qualifies as a “pit-bull-type dog” – and notoriously _excludes_ breed identification by the veterinarian of the dog in question, as a deliberate tactic to overcome vets writing “mixed breed” on certificates to protect pit bulls. > > I personally think most BSL is “feel good” law passed in haste by legislators who do not put much effort or thought into the process. I wouldn’t cite it as an authority on breeds. > > In the US, ‘bull terrier’ is used to mean [this specific breed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_terrier). And I’d call that an English Bull Terrier. It is a bit odd to refer to that one as a bull terrier when there are at least two other common breeds that have ‘bull terrier’ as part of their name. But that’s my point - just because it’s widely accepted in the US doesn’t mean it _has_ to be, not when there’s another English-speaking country that uses completely different terminology. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/127 "2011-09-07T22:05:48Z")
The UKC - not a junk registry by any metric - does consider the [APBT a breed](http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/AmericanPitBullTerrierRevisedNovember12008)and allows them to show in conformation. > [@](#): > > The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. **Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog.** The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work. The same could be said of many less commonly-owned breeds: Airedales, Akitas, Tosas, Filas, Bull mastiffs, Shar-Peis, Rottweilers, Malamutes, etc. The problem, again, comes down to the owners and pit bulls are an overwhelmingly common choice amongst lower-income, less-educated, city/ghetto inhabitants. Who often don’t have much money to properly care for, train or contain these dogs.\* Hence the overrepresentation (of bully breeds and bully mixes in general) of this type of dog in attacks. I’m against BSL 100 percent, but sensible “dangerous dog” laws that put restrictions on ill-behaved owners and their dogs, and hold the owners responsible, are fine, I think. - I am basing my opinion here based on my observations in actively working in dog rescue/rehab for almost 20 years in two different cities. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/128 "2011-09-07T22:09:27Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > edited to add: Lately, it seems like chows getting singled out instead of JRTS. I don’t know chows from personal experience, but I’m inclined to think they’re no more guilty than the other breeds we’ve seen accused. I’m against Breed-Specific Legislation, not just Anti-Pit-Bull Legislation. Part of the problem with that is that Chows are bred to be guardian dogs. Dogs that are bred to specifically bond with their family/property and then react aggressively to intruders or those they perceive as a threat WILL be much more dangerous, generally speaking, to strangers than those that are bred to fight other dogs and have otherwise, historically, been kept as a family pet. There’s actually a general problem with pit bulls who are going for their ATT or CGC (American Temperament Test and Canine Good Citizen) who are NOT protective enough of their person when faced with the “menacing stranger” encounter. Pit bulls are not personal guard dogs and Chows are. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/129 "2011-09-07T22:23:14Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > Part of the problem with that is that Chows are bred to be guardian dogs. Dogs that are bred to specifically bond with their family/property and then react aggressively to intruders or those they perceive as a threat WILL be much more dangerous, generally speaking, to strangers than those that are bred to fight other dogs and have otherwise, historically, been kept as a family pet. > > There’s actually a general problem with pit bulls who are going for their ATT or CGC (American Temperament Test and Canine Good Citizen) who are NOT protective enough of their person when faced with the “menacing stranger” encounter. Pit bulls are not personal guard dogs and Chows are. I’m not sure how reliable ATTS or CGC (I’ve done both with Rottweilers and my JRT mix) is as a metric here - I’d assume that almost everyone who brings a dog to either testing event is self-selected as pretty hip and has a dog that’s been well-trained and gone through more than one obedience class. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894/130 "2011-09-07T23:04:44Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > I’m not sure how reliable ATTS or CGC (I’ve done both with Rottweilers and my JRT mix) is as a metric here - I’d assume that almost everyone who brings a dog to either testing event is self-selected as pretty hip and has a dog that’s been well-trained and gone through more than one obedience class. Heh, my best friend holds these monthly as part of her job as a dog trainer. She says they get a whole spectrum - well trained dogs, dogs who are part of her classes (the test gets offered at the end of any non-beginner lesson course) and dogs who just seem to have been signed up as part of a random whim. My info comes anecdotal from her and from other trainers I’ve worked with with my own dogs over the years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbull-scenario/594894.md?page=6)