# Pitbulls **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2013, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969 "2013-05-10T08:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/81 "2013-05-11T04:22:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Great. Do you agree that some people breed dogs in an attempt to increase their predisposition to territoriality, and that some people breed dogs in an attempt to increase their disposition to go get small moving objects and bring them back to their pack leader? No to the first (as far as pitbulls are concerned) and the second has nothing to do with pitbulls’ aggression towards humans. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/82 "2013-05-11T08:37:20Z")
> [@iftheresaway](#): > > I’m pretty sure I originally found this in a Dope thread. It’s called “Find the Pitbull”. See for yourself whether you can always tell what breed a dog is: [http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html) I see the point; however, I believe the picture of a pit bull in this collection of photos is of a puppy, not a full grown dog, and is therefore misleading. Here is a picture of full grown pitbulls from a breeder’s site. They look almost nothing like the pit bull in the link because they are full grown and the picture in the link is of a puppy. If you have to mislead and cheat to make a point, you have made no point at all. [http://www.caragankennel.com/](http://www.caragankennel.com/) ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/83 "2013-05-11T08:47:59Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > If you choose to judge a dog by what it’s breed was created for, then pit bulls should get a pass. They were never bred to be aggressive to humans. They were bred to be aggressive to other dogs. A pit bull handler had to be able to reach into the fight pit and pull his dog out without being afraid of being mauled. Any pit bull that turned fight aggression towards its owner would be killed out of hand. One hundred years ago, even fifty years ago, pitbulls were considered “nanny” dogs. Watch The Little Rascals - the dog that follows them everywhere was a pitbull. > > There are many pitbulls have such a bad reputation these days: > > - pitbulls belong to a class of dog breeds with very similar physical characteristics. It’s easy to mistake a bull terrier, an American bulldog, or a boxer for a pitbull. If you’re not convinced, take a look at [this page](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html). > > - starting in the 80s, pitbulls were a fad breed. They look tough and scary, so some people wanted them as an accessory so they could look tough and scary. These people were not good dog owners, and they were probably the very same people who bought german shepherds, dobermans, and rottweilers and screwed over those breeds’ reputations. They didn’t train, socialize, or discipline their dogs properly. So, there was a spike in the number of pitbulls, and a disproportionate increase in the number of poorly managed pitbulls. > > - Because these owners were so incompetent at responsible pet ownership, their unspayed/unneutered pets bred with pretty much any other unaltered dog in the vicinity. This resulted in a lot of pitbull mixes with negligent owners, no training, no proper socialization, and often abuse at the hands of humans. That breeds aggression. > > - The media is guilty of taking uncommon events and catastrophizing them in order to hook viewers. Do you remember the summer of 2001? It was called the Summer of the Shark, and shark attacks were reported with speculation on what was causing such horrific attacks. Of course, statistically, there were fewer attacks that year than the previous ten years. Didn’t matter. The same thing happens with dog bites and maulings. The numbers don’t matter to the media. The spectacle does. > > Now, you can get all verklempt about pitbulls or rottweilers or whatever breed happens to be the Bad Dog of the Day. Or you can recognize that the deciding influence in dog bites and maulings are _people_. Stop trying to outlaw breeds of dogs - which will never work - and get people to recognize their responsibility for dog ownership. [Eighty-six percent of fatal dog attacks are committed by unneutered male dogs\*](http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html). Requiring all non-breeder dog owners to spay and neuter their pets and holding them criminally liable for dog attacks by unaltered dogs would go a long way towards solving this problem. > > Stop hating on the dogs and start pushing people to do the right thing for their pets. > > From the stats on the page: 92% of fatal dog maulings are committed by male dogs, and 94% of those are unneutered dogs. .92 multiplied by .94 gives us 84% of the total number of fatal dog maulings committed by unneutered male dogs. I agree with you. All male dogs which are not specifically used by authorized breeders for breeding purposes should be neutered. From your link: “•Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered.” ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/84 "2013-05-11T14:19:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And that’s the thing. There are definitely dogs with a genetic predisposition to violence, and a disproportionate number of those dogs are pit bulls. I think folks who deny that are just flat-out wrong. But there’s definitely not a one-to-one correspondence between violent dogs and pit bulls in either direction. I don’t actually know that we know that. Are there any studies that actually bother to identify the dogs genetically and study the animal’s heritage? A breed of dog is a dog that is the product of many generations of selective and controlled breeding to emphasize some characteristics and deemphasize others. Anything else is just _canis lupus familiaris_ and difficult to distinguish in any way, and you’re just talking about physical characteristics that are shared by dozens of breeds. It’s been awhile, but the last time I looked into the literature all the reports were based on some human looking at a dog and “classifying it” as a pit bull. Unless you know its parentage or do a genetic test you simply aren’t talking about real dog breeds or real identification of dog breeds at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/85 "2013-05-11T14:21:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How do they define “pit bull-type”? Because in practice, that term is usually used to mean “Scary-looking dog that attacked me, or that I thought might attack me”. And yes, the category of “Scary-looking dog that I thought might attack me” is in fact responsible for a disproportionate number of attacks, but I don’t think that really indicates anything. Right, and as **LHoD** ’s cite shows these studies always talk about “pit bull-type” dogs, which means “dogs we have no idea whether or not they were actually created by selected breeding or if they’re just mutts, that share traits similar to the three AKC breeds recognized as pit bulls.” The problem with that definition is it can encompass some dozens of actual breeds as well as millions of mutts that may have no association at all with the three AKC breeds commonly referred to as pit bulls. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/86 "2013-05-11T14:26:58Z")
I think you folks are missing the point about pit bull attacks. It’s not that the dog is more aggressive it’s that when the dog attacks it doesn’t stop in a timely manner. This is why they represent a higher percentage of fatalities versus other dogs. So you can take all your excuses such as: “it’s the owner’s fault” and “you can’t identify the dog” arguments to your grave when one of these dogs attacks. If you see one loose it is far more likely to kill you than say a Lab or a beagle. Again, it’s not the level of aggression, it’s the likelihood that if it does it will not stop. This is what kills people. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/87 "2013-05-11T14:27:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Those are not the identifications I’m talking about, though. I’m trying very hard to be clear on what I’m talking about, and I’m offering cites about what I’m talking about. > > If you’re talking about breeders and owners who belong to the AKC, you’re almost certainly talking about a different group of breeders and owners from whom I’m talking about. > > Out of curiosity, how many conversations have you had with dogfighters or with folks who have attended organized dogfights? It’s been awhile since I’ve done so, but I used to give classes on animal cruelty at a local rural high school, and I talked with a couple of dozen students over the years who’d been involved in dogfighting and were willing to discuss their experiences with the class. That’s my direct experience; in prep for the class, of course, I did a lot of research. > > Again, the dog owners I was researching weren’t the ones showing up at Westminster. Because dog fighting breeders are operating outside the bounds of the law and the official registries there is generally no way to either know the original blood line of the animals that started their operation or if they are following the breed standard. If the original animals were from some other breed or mixed breeds, or they aren’t following the breed standard in their successive breeding generations then we’re talking about mutts. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/88 "2013-05-11T14:32:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > LD, is it the “to people” part that you are reacting to? Do you not believe that aggressiveness is a selectable trait? Do you think dogs’ personalities are blank slates exclusively shaped by how they are raised? What do you think would happen when the most aggressive and easily provoked dogs are mated together over multiple generations? If you believe that some significant fraction of those dogs will have a greater tendency to become highly aggressive than without such a breeding campaign, then do you think that somehow the aggression will not be aimed at humans ever? If so why? > > Temperament is a trait with a significant genetic component. Including the tendency of American Pit Bulls raised by reputable breeders to be gentle, playful, and stable dogs. Dogs can definitely be bred to be aggressive. IME (and I know a lot of breeders, was raised by parents who bred champion show dogs etc) the most dangerous dogs _as bred to the breed standard_ are dogs bred to guard livestock followed by sled dogs. The reasons if one think about it make sense, the old breeds bred for the blood sports were all bred to be non-aggressive to their handlers. Household guard dogs were bred so that they could be trained to recognize friend from foe and thus, while more dangerous than dogs not bred for guarding at all they tended (when properly bred/raised) to be safe and not prone to attacking random people. Livestock guard dogs and sled dogs were mostly raised as “tools” and to operate without a lot of human interaction (especially livestock guard dogs), sled dogs obviously get a lot of time close to human from pulling sled but not in a way that either requires or desires they do anything but be really good at pulling a sled. The dogs produced for modern illegal bloodsports are produced by un-professional breeders that probably know nothing of any breed histories or how bloodsport dogs should be raised. Now, I think the age of blood sports being legal and popular is happily behind us, but back when it was done the people involved in it generally were professionals who bred professionally. Today, because it attracts common criminals due to its illegality you have people that really have no idea how to breed for characteristics or behavior. So they probably just round up a few studs and bitches that “look like pit bulls” and then breed away, destroying the dogs that aren’t mean as hell and mistreating the ones that are to make them even meaner. This produces a very dangerous animal but to call it one of the three AKC breeds commonly called pit bulls is like calling a Golden Retriever a German Shepherd. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/89 "2013-05-11T14:40:53Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > I see the point; however, I believe the picture of a pit bull in this collection of photos is of a puppy, not a full grown dog, and is therefore misleading. > > Here is a picture of full grown pitbulls from a breeder’s site. They look almost nothing like the pit bull in the link because they are full grown and the picture in the link is of a puppy. If you have to mislead and cheat to make a point, you have made no point at all. > > [http://www.caragankennel.com/](http://www.caragankennel.com/) No, it doesn’t appear to be a puppy, its head is just turned. The distinctive APBT head is only distinctive when looking at it straight on. But even if they had picked a better picture of an APBT I think almost no random police officer, bite victim or etc could easily distinguish between an APBT, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, Cane Corso and any number of other breeds. Now, I think from a selection of top bred dogs I could distinguish an APBT from a Cane Corso or other similar breeds if I knew I was dealing with all 100% pure blood, professionally bred dogs (because I’d know that no mutts were in the group.) But outside of such a controlled situation (in the real world), I know that mutts can strongly resemble any number of purebred dog breeds, and that not all breeders do as good as job of others at conforming to the breed standard. So some dogs even if properly bred may be hard to tell apart from other breeds. That’s why no veterinarian or any other person professionally involved with animals would ever claim they could make a **definitive** identification just based on a visual exam. And if the dog’s parentage can’t be found out it becomes basically impossible to know anything about the dog, even with genetic testing it wouldn’t be certain. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/90 "2013-05-11T14:51:58Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > No to the first (as far as pitbulls are concerned) and the second has nothing to do with pitbulls’ aggression towards humans. I didn’t ask about pit bulls, though. I’m trying single-step debugging here :), trying to figure out exactly where our disagreement is; if you don’t mind answering only what I ask, it might help us figure it out. (At this point I’m wondering if I’ll need to ask you about the theory of Darwinian natural selection, but I’m hoping that’s not the point of disagreement). Again, the questions: > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Do you agree that some people breed dogs in an attempt to increase their predisposition to territoriality, and that some people breed dogs in an attempt to increase their disposition to go get small moving objects and bring them back to their pack leader? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/91 "2013-05-11T14:53:53Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Because dog fighting breeders are operating outside the bounds of the law and the official registries there is generally no way to either know the original blood line of the animals that started their operation or if they are following the breed standard. If the original animals were from some other breed or mixed breeds, or they aren’t following the breed standard in their successive breeding generations then we’re talking about mutts. “Mutt” is no more a scientific term than “pit bull.” We’re talking cultural significance and cultural identifiers here, which are related to breeding, but there’s no scientific bright line between a pit bull and a non-pit-bull. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/92 "2013-05-11T15:27:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I didn’t ask about pit bulls, though. I’m trying single-step debugging here :), trying to figure out exactly where our disagreement is; if you don’t mind answering only what I ask, it might help us figure it out. (At this point I’m wondering if I’ll need to ask you about the theory of Darwinian natural selection, but I’m hoping that’s not the point of disagreement). > > Again, the questions: I don’t know. I know that a lot of what they’re breading isn’t the desire to get small animals, but rather selectively breeding to improve the physical characteristics that make the job easier for the dog. Pointers are bred for sense if smell and a short coat to keep them from being snagged on briars. Labs are large enough to bring back bigger birds, have a coat that keeps them warm in the water and big paws that help them swim better. I have no idea if they attemp to breed attitude, though I would bet some do. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/93 "2013-05-11T16:26:39Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I have no idea if they attemp to breed attitude, though I would bet some do. Wow, I’m surprised, and I’m glad I’m doing this one step at a time. Okay, next question: do you believe that there are many different attitudes that people have tried to breed into dogs? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/94 "2013-05-11T16:52:21Z")
No idea. This is a ridiculous fucking conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/95 "2013-05-11T16:52:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Mutt” is no more a scientific term than “pit bull.” We’re talking cultural significance and cultural identifiers here, which are related to breeding, but there’s no scientific bright line between a pit bull and a non-pit-bull. No, but both are understood terms amongst dog breeders. A mutt is just a dog, as would exist normally and as do exist normally when left to their own devices. They breed with each other with little real inhibition and create copious amounts of puppies that continue on over and over again til you end up with hundreds of millions of dogs. They’re still a domesticated animal, but like all animals there will be great variability from one to the other. About the only way you can really predict anything about their behavior is by actually observing and interacting with the specific dog. Pit bull is a term, that generally refers to three specific AKC breeds. If you want to argue that it’s a term that “means all dogs that look like those breeds, or are aggressive” that’s fine, but then I question why you’re using that term instead of just the term “dog.” Because the reason these discussion ever focus on any one breed is because of “breed laws” and insurance stipulations prohibiting certain breeds, rental agreements prohibiting certain breeds and etc. Do you think breed bans actually make any sense if instead of referring to the three AKC breeds, you’re talking about pit bulls as just a catch all term for a large, vaguely defined dog population that share a few superficial physical likenesses and have high levels of aggression? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/96 "2013-05-11T16:54:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think you folks are missing the point about pit bull attacks. It’s not that the dog is more aggressive it’s that when the dog attacks it doesn’t stop in a timely manner. This is why they represent a higher percentage of fatalities versus other dogs. > > So you can take all your excuses such as: “it’s the owner’s fault” and “you can’t identify the dog” arguments to your grave when one of these dogs attacks. If you see one loose it is far more likely to kill you than say a Lab or a beagle. Again, it’s not the level of aggression, it’s the likelihood that if it does it will not stop. This is what kills people. There’s no evidence to support what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/97 "2013-05-11T16:58:17Z")
Basically **LHoD** , you’re in agreement with me. If you understand there is no meaning to the term “pit bull” then you understand it’s meaningless to try and talk about whether pit bulls are more dangerous than other breeds. Because you’re comparing one thing (“a cultural construct”) to a specific dog breed, which isn’t just a “cultural construct” but is instead a lineage of dogs bred over many generations to have a set of physical and behavioral characteristics. I’ll replace your use of the term pit bull with the term “illegal fighting dogs” and thus say, “Illegal fighting dogs (IFDs) are dangerous because they are bred for aggression, but IFDs have nothing to do with AKC recognized pit bull breeds like the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, or the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Further style, while IFDs are probably involved in many violent attacks, since there is no reliable way you can really easily distinguish an IFD from any AKC breeds or by sight distinguish AKCs breeds from one another any statistics based on reported dog breeds in biting incidents are essentially worthless and not worthy of serious consideration due to inherent flaws in the methodology.” ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/98 "2013-05-11T17:02:27Z")
Accidental duplicate post. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/99 "2013-05-11T18:21:08Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > No idea. > > This is a ridiculous fucking conversation. Okay. If your knowledge of dog breeding is such that you don’t even know about the millennia-long history of humans breeding for specific attitudes and behaviors, I’m afraid I agree that the conversation is ridiculous. It’d be like me arguing with someone over the implications of string theory, when I don’t know anything about string theory. You’d do well to learn more about the history of dog breeding before expressing any more opinions on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969/100 "2013-05-11T18:23:51Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Pit bull is a term, that generally refers to three specific AKC breeds. I dispute this, as seen by all the posts showing that most people do NOT using the term “pit bull” in the same way that the AKC uses the terms. People use the term to refer to a variety of dogs, and the AKC has no special authority to govern how the term is used. My point is that a significant number (probably a minority) of the dogs that are called pit bulls by their owners, whether those dogs conform to AKC guidelines or not, are selected and bred and raised for an aggressive temperament. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitbulls/657969.md?page=6)