# Pitch in to Help Andrew Wakefield’s Defense Fund! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 24, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815 "2012-02-24T06:20:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/21 "2012-02-24T23:08:46Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > He claims that he still has the education and that can’t be taken away from him, so he still gets to use the title. People who go all the way through medical school but don’t pass their boards have the education but don’t get to use the title, so having the education is meaningless in the context of whether or not Wakkers can use the title. He’s sadly mistaken that he has the right to the title. (of course, I’m directing that comment at him, as I suspect you agree that he does not deserve it). > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > This is a great idea. I’ve done just that. $10 to the Autism Science Foundation, and a friendly message on Wakefield’s website letting him know about the donation made in his name. > > Edit: The comment is queued for moderation. Wonder if it will ever show up on the site. Somehow I doubt it. That’s awesome. I sincerely doubt it’ll make it out of moderation, but if it does, please take a screenshot! If not, I’d love to hear the reason they give you, if they give you any. I’m tempted to post “I donated in Wakefield’s name!” messages on Age of Autism, just to poke them with a stick. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/22 "2012-02-25T00:52:29Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Maybe I can do something in his honor instead, like get a vaccination. Any suggestions from the other healthcare worker members? (Age 41, got a TDaP booster last year, HepB series a decade ago, influenza shots yearly.) Definately get a pertussis vaccination. I don’t know the age range for zoster (shingles) but if you qualify, that would be good too. ---
**Author:** ![gardentraveler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gardentraveler/32/3576_2.png) [@gardentraveler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gardentraveler)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/23 "2012-02-25T01:50:03Z")
Hmmm, I think I’m due for a tetanus booster this year. I promise to think of “Dr.” Wakefield when I get the shot. The Bad Astronomer has quite a few blog posts dedicated to fighting antivax ignorance. [Here’s a link](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?s=antivax) where I’ve searched on “antivax.” ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/24 "2012-02-25T02:33:15Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’d be happy to “pitch in.” Anyone know where I can get some stink bombs? It’d be mean, but showing up with an active case of measles would be pretty effective. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/25 "2012-02-25T02:38:57Z")
Dr. Paul Offit is head of the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and author of several wonderful books on vaccines. Unfortnately thanks to “Dr.” Wakefield and his merry band of morons Offit doesn’t do book tours: > [@](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/health/13auti.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/health/13auti.html) > > But there will be no book tour for the doctor, Paul A. Offit, author of “Autism’s False Prophets.” He has had too many death threats. They ought to organize a Let Offit Tour defense fund for Offit instead. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/26 "2012-02-25T02:53:43Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > Definately get a pertussis vaccination. I don’t know the age range for zoster (shingles) but if you qualify, that would be good too. Got one in November 2010 with the TDaP; how often should you get boosters on that? I’ve seen the drugstore vaccination posters say (IIRC) age 60+ for zoster; since I had chickenpox and work in ophthalmology (herpetic ocular infections, oh boy) I am **extremely motivated** to get that vaccine as soon as someone will give it to me. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/27 "2012-02-25T02:57:37Z")
The shingles vaccine can be hard to find unfortunately: > **[Why Patients Aren’t Getting the Shingles Vaccine (Published 2010)](https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/health/10chen.html?pagewanted=all)** > > Most doctors recommend immunizations against flu and pneumonia for older patients, but they do not do the same with the shingles vaccine. I’ve had chicken pox. I hope the vaccine is more available by the time I’m eligible to get it. Shingles sounds horrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/28 "2012-02-25T02:58:01Z")
> [@Darryl\_Lict](#): > > It’d be mean, but showing up with an active case of measles would be pretty effective. BTW, two people with infectious measles went to the Super Bowl village - fortunately this only caused [14 cases](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-parenting/post/measles-outbreak-after-super-bowl-ignites-vaccine-debate/2012/02/22/gIQAWNqPWR_blog.html) due to how many people do vaccinate. The article notes that since measles can be infectious for a week before showing, it could have been an epidemic of hundreds of thousands. And not surprisingly, 13 of those cases were in MMR vaccine refusers. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/29 "2012-02-25T03:05:48Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > BTW, two people with infectious measles went to the Super Bowl village - fortunately this only caused [14 cases](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-parenting/post/measles-outbreak-after-super-bowl-ignites-vaccine-debate/2012/02/22/gIQAWNqPWR_blog.html) due to how many people do vaccinate. The article notes that since measles can be infectious for a week before showing, it could have been an epidemic of hundreds of thousands. And not surprisingly, 13 of those cases were in MMR vaccine refusers. Unless they’ve got medical reasons for their refusal, those 2 should be heavily fined and possibly even jailed. We jail people who knowingly spread AIDS. Measles is a lot more contagious. Without the vaccine over 90% of those who are unprotected will get the disease. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/30 "2012-02-25T06:36:52Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Got one in November 2010 with the TDaP; how often should you get boosters on that? > > I’ve seen the drugstore vaccination posters say (IIRC) age 60+ for zoster; since I had chickenpox and work in ophthalmology (herpetic ocular infections, oh boy) I am **extremely motivated** to get that vaccine as soon as someone will give it to me. Well, I was told it’s a one time dose, but because my husband had tussive syncope and nearly died with the disease, they’ve given it to him every 5 years. That’s about how long the disease gives one immunity. At the clinic we go to, the Zoster vaccine is given to those over 60 and anyone who has had Shingles. It’s rare in younger people, but not unheard of. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/31 "2012-02-25T09:57:04Z")
I’ll give him a faceful of pepperspray and a wooden nickel. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/32 "2012-02-25T17:09:58Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > The link in the OP referred to “Dr. Andrew Wakefield”. I thought he lost his medical license. Losing your license to practice doesn’t invalidate your degree, so you can still call yourself “Dr.”. Seeing as how many woo practitioners call themselves “Dr.” based on dubious degrees, unrelated doctorates in everything from chemistry to the classics and so on, being a “Dr.” doesn’t have all that much cachet. > [@Ms.Whatsit](#): > > This is a great idea. I’ve done just that. $10 to the Autism Science Foundation, and a friendly message on Wakefield’s website letting him know about the donation made in his name. > > Edit: The comment is queued for moderation. Wonder if it will ever show up on the site. Somehow I doubt it. I’ll bet your comment vanishes forever in moderation. Sites devoted to antivax sentiment see no problem in squelching dissent, even as they wail about how the Man is suppressing their own views. ---
**Author:** ![spankthecrumpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@spankthecrumpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spankthecrumpet)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/33 "2012-02-25T17:47:57Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I’m tempted to post “I donated in Wakefield’s name!” messages on Age of Autism, just to poke them with a stick. I think that’s a bit naughty. Most of these people are well meaning and have gone through a huge amount of suffering with their kids. They genuinely believe. Taunting them ain’t going to help - and it makes them stick together even more. I actually know quite a bit about this because my father is a medical professional who is at least partly into this rubbish, so I know how they think. It is very much like conspiracy theorists with a martyrdom complex. In any case they are certainly sincere in their delusions and not out to rip people off, whatever it looks like. (No, he’s not Dr. Wakefield :D) ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/34 "2012-02-25T18:49:55Z")
> [@spankthecrumpet](#): > > I think that’s a bit naughty. Most of these people are well meaning and have gone through a huge amount of suffering with their kids. They genuinely believe. Taunting them ain’t going to help - and it makes them stick together even more. > > I actually know quite a bit about this because my father is a medical professional who is at least partly into this rubbish, so I know how they think. It is very much like conspiracy theorists with a martyrdom complex. In any case they are certainly sincere in their delusions and not out to rip people off, whatever it looks like. > > (No, he’s not Dr. Wakefield :D) These “well meaning” people have helped spark epidemics of contagious diseases. People have died from measles because of quacks like Wakefield. They’ve wasted research money, lied about vaccines, scared parents against protective health measures and lobbied for quackery. Ultimately they’re not all that well meaning. They’re willful morons who are deliberately ignoring medical science and putting all of us at risk. They line the pockets of creeps who tell them lies and threaten those who tell the truth. Thanks to crazies like them good people like Dr. Offit get death threats. Thanks to crazies like them there were over 15,000 cases of measles in Europe last year and nine deaths. Thanks to crazies like them Americans have been in the grip of periodic outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases that have cost all of us thousands of dollars each year. I have a baby who cannot yet get her MMR vaccine because she’s too young. I am not interested in listening to them or patting them on the back or treating them like adults. I am most certainly not interested in providing them with a public platform to air their lies. I am interested in doing whatever I can to force them to shut up and vaccinate their kids or else get out of my community. Having a child with autism just means you have a child with autism. It is not a license to lie, cheat or spread disease. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/35 "2012-02-25T19:14:13Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Having a child with autism just means you have a child with autism. It is not a license to lie, cheat or spread disease. Exactly—when your stupidity threatens me and my children, we’ve got a problem. ---
**Author:** ![spankthecrumpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@spankthecrumpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spankthecrumpet)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/36 "2012-02-25T20:40:02Z")
Erm… isn’t that exactly the argument that anti-welfare extremists use against anyone claiming any welfare? We all do things that affect others. For me, the motivation really matters - and it is ironically anti-scientific to ignore (effectively) the cognivitive biases and so on that make the woo-woos act the way they do… honestly, the vast majority are trying to do their best. I think you over estimate people if you expect them to act rationally. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/37 "2012-02-25T21:02:05Z")
> [@spankthecrumpet](#): > > Erm… isn’t that exactly the argument that anti-welfare extremists use against anyone claiming any welfare? > > We all do things that affect others. For me, the motivation really matters - and it is ironically anti-scientific to ignore (effectively) the cognivitive biases and so on that make the woo-woos act the way they do… honestly, the vast majority are trying to do their best. > > I think you over estimate people if you expect them to act rationally. There’s a huge difference between affect and potentially make seriously ill. I don’t give a damn about your motivation for doing so. If you put my baby in danger of getting a horrible disease like measles you can hardly expect my sympathy. That’s the biggest problem with anti-vax woo. It’s contagious woo. If you want to buy a copper bracelet to treat arthritis or make yourself look like a freak with colloidal silver you affect no one but yourself. If you want to go around courting diseases that can cause others to go blind, deaf or mentally retarded you have no business whining when most people believe you to be a dangerous lunatic. Or if they take measures to protect themselves and make you stop. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/38 "2012-02-25T22:08:54Z")
> [@spankthecrumpet](#): > > We all do things that affect others. For me, the motivation really matters - and it is ironically anti-scientific to ignore (effectively) the cognivitive biases and so on that make the woo-woos act the way they do… honestly, the vast majority are trying to do their best. There are different sorts of people who avoid vaccinating their kids. Some are honestly confused and misled by bad information. Others (and the Age of Autism regulars are in this group) are virulently anti-vaccination, extremely closed-minded and unrelentingly hostile to the science that contradicts their claims (as well as behavingly viciously towards those who promote good science and evidence-based medical practice). While they represent a minority of autism advocates, their stridency seems to have given them disproportionate attention and influence. > [@spankthecrumpet](#): > > I think you over estimate people if you expect them to act rationally. I don’t expect everyone to act rationally. There need to be consequences for irrational behavior that harms children and society at large. ---
**Author:** ![spankthecrumpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@spankthecrumpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spankthecrumpet)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/39 "2012-02-25T22:09:16Z")
I don’t disagree with that. I draw the line at taunting them - it won’t work, they don’t/won’t realise what they’re doing, and doing so increases their resolve. Maybe it’s just a bit personal for me. My father does legitimate, cutting-edge research and is an acknowledged expert in his field. I see him discussing this crap with people and it worries me that he could throw it all away - as realistically if one is thought of as a kook no legit journal is going to publish your stuff - if he ranted about this to the wrong person (and he isn’t shy of sharing his opinions). Then again he is also a spirtualist. I think with woo-y stuff the typical believer doesn’t believe in just one thing… actually, those who do, you can usually talk sense into… ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815/40 "2012-02-26T06:33:48Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Got one in November 2010 with the TDaP; how often should you get boosters on that? > > I’ve seen the drugstore vaccination posters say (IIRC) age 60+ for zoster; since I had chickenpox and work in ophthalmology (herpetic ocular infections, oh boy) I am **extremely motivated** to get that vaccine as soon as someone will give it to me. You should get the tetanus and related boosters (TDaP) once every ten years. I’ve gotten mine since 1975. Just about every drugstore around has signs out offering the shingles shot. Is there some difficulty for you to get one? (Are you not 60 yet? You could probably get a prescription from a doctor easily, just for the asking, I’d bet.) I got mine, just a few weeks ago, from my HMO provider. ETA: I HATE getting shots, but I manned up and done it! ETA some more: AND, I even walked out of there on my own! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitch-in-to-help-andrew-wakefield-s-defense-fund/613815.md?page=3)