# Pitting all those fuckers that ask "Cite ?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344 "2003-12-11T13:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/61 "2003-12-12T07:09:18Z")
Look, of course one of the great things about this board is that people who know what they are talking about participate, and–when appropriate–back up their claims with citations. But I agree with the OP’s perception that–to often–asking for a cite is just a hack debating tactic. It strikes me that some people like to just sit on their ass and say “cite?” as a lazy way to dismiss an argument that they disagree with. And furthermore, often they simply dismiss repeated cites when those are offered. Do I have a cite for that? Yeah, I have a cite for that: it’s my observation based on reading these boards for several months. If you read an op-ed piece in the Economist, or the New York Times, they do not provide footnotes and citations for every assertion that they make. Sometimes, as in the case of [tax protestors faq](http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html) some wise soul has gone through and refuted every crazy allegation that some knucklehead is likely to make about a subject. (I heard there is a similar site aimed at the “moon shot was all a big conspiracy loonies”) But this is, of course, not always the case. And I’m not going to let a thread get hijacked just because I don’t have a cite handy. I think **LonesomePolecat** had it right in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=39281) from several years ago. (This is the same thread that **Achilles** linked to above.) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LonesomePolecat \* > \*\*A major problem not only at SDMB but in a lot of public forums is that people get locked into some silly “more scholarly than thou” contest and forget that it isn’t a formal debate between scholars and scientists. It really just isn’t reasonable to expect the average Joe to put his entire life on hold and spend every spare minute he’s got in the library trying to find references. And I’ve found that requests or demands for references often aren’t honest. No matter how many references you provide, no matter how sound your references may be, it seems like the other guy always has some vaguely plausible excuse for not accepting them. > > In most forums, about the most you can realistically do is compare opinions and viewpoints. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Linear\_Crack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Linear\_Crack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linear_Crack)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/62 "2003-12-12T07:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Pitting all those fuckers that ask “Cite ?” fuckers? -LC ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/63 "2003-12-12T08:02:50Z")
You know there are much worse things out there than goatse.cx and the tubgirl picture. For example you definately should not look at [http://www.oralse.cx/](http://www.oralse.cx/) ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/64 "2003-12-12T08:34:28Z")
I think it kinda goes like this: GD: You MUST back up your bullshit with a cite or you will be destroyed. The Pit: Cite this, dipshit! IMHO: Well, I don’t care what you say, it’s like THIS in OUR house! CS: IMDB rules! And for the trekkies, only canon counts! MPSIMS: Who gives a shit… ---
**Author:** ![Achilles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dc4da7/32.png) [@Achilles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achilles)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/65 "2003-12-12T10:40:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > \*\*I laughed so hard, I think I pooed a little. \*\* Be-eutiful. Definately sounds like lyrics… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sqube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Sqube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sqube)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/66 "2003-12-12T12:07:28Z")
I think I must have missed something with the whole “tubgirl” search. I didn’t see anything that would give me sleepless nights… anybody wanna Tell me what I missed? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/67 "2003-12-12T13:08:58Z")
constantine, But you have it right. You reported a “perception” and back it up with why you believe it to be so - your personal observations. For that statement personal observation is the best possible source. I’d like to pit the lazy fucks who are too stupid to know that they do not know what they think they know; who can’t tell the difference between “It is commonly believed …”/“Most of us think that …”/“My impression is that …” and “This is true because I said so”/“This is true because my mama told me”/“I’ve had two experiences of this so it is always the case”/etc. “Gee, Columbus, you fucker. Of course the world is flat! Everybody _knows_ that.” The point isn’t to provide some cite (afterall the quality of sources material varies) but to say it right the first time and to question whether you really know what you think you know. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/68 "2003-12-12T19:49:10Z")
You know the only thing worse than “Cite”? A link to snopes. Because all us good lemmings know by now, snopes has the definitive answer to everything. Snopes is THE factual information authority of the world (as long as you can sort their bullshit from their facts). ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/69 "2003-12-12T22:09:41Z")
What’s so wrong with snopes? ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/70 "2003-12-12T23:15:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dakravel \* > \*\*What’s so wrong with snopes? \*\* I have another tread going here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=228822](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=228822) It seems to me a lot of people around SDMB think the ol’ snopes link is a trump card for any argument, I don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/71 "2003-12-13T13:26:10Z")
**Sqube** : Be sure you’re doing an image search, and not an ordinary Google search. Also be sure your Google preferences are set to allow unsavory content. And may God have mercy on your soul. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/72 "2003-12-13T15:08:47Z")
What about anecdotal evidence or personal experience? How do you _cite_ that? On some subjects, personal experience can be in direct contrast to the written word, whether that word be in a book or on a website. True, it’s not a very good idea for a GD, but in GQ I think it often has merit. As long as it’s perfectly clear that it is a personal experience. ---
**Author:** ![Oat1957](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Oat1957](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oat1957)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/73 "2003-12-13T15:56:08Z")
:eek: :eek: I just had to look! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/74 "2003-12-13T16:01:40Z")
I don’t know, tubgirl kinda turns me on… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/75 "2003-12-13T18:23:31Z")
> [@](#): > > What about anecdotal evidence or personal experience? How do you cite that? By saying that. For example: “I have personally observed on these boards a variety people make statements as if they are fact and then whine like babies when asked to support the statement. It seems to me that they are too stupid to realize that they don’t really know what they think they know and are unable to question their presumptions” or “I have observed many occassions when the only post that someone makes in a thread is to ask for a cite and brings nothing of value to a discussion. That annoys the crap out of me.” Very valid statements with their cites self enclosed. To be evaluated based on the value of repeated personal observation (induction) and the rationality of the conclusion from the observation (deduction). Personal observation is a very valid basis for some kinds of statements and misleads other times. Very different than **Civil** ’s indefensible position of stating things as fact and being too lazy to back it up and too unaware to realize that it might not really be true if it is only something that he/she _believes_ to be true without any basis of support. Yes, that is fine for a humble opinion, but then admit that such is all it is, don’t go putting it forth as “true”. Now then, I gotta google tubgirl … ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/76 "2003-12-13T18:27:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*I can’t exit this thread without posting **Aldebaran** ’s immortal “My post is my cite”. > > Although I couldn’t explain why. > > Regards, > Shodan \*\* I like that! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/77 "2003-12-13T18:28:41Z")
Oh I wish I hadn’t done that. ---
**Author:** ![J\_String](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@J\_String](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J_String)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/78 "2003-12-13T19:01:08Z")
Something that annoys me (though I don’t see it very often) is a tendency for some to make the argument that since this is an **online** message board, the only legitimate cite is an **online** one. No print articles or books need apply. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/79 "2003-12-13T21:00:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DSeid \* > \*\*Oh I wish I hadn’t done that. \*\* _Points at **DSeid** _ Ha-ha [/Nelson] ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344/80 "2003-12-13T23:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > \*\*I occasionally run across people like this, and it always bothers me. Someone in a thread yells “cite!” when the subject is easily verified or debunked with a simple Web Search. It usually makes me lose faith in the requestor’s smarts, and his/her debating skill. > \*\* Yeah, that’s usually the way I feel. For example, if I go and say something in a thread that’s VERY easily verifiable, and someone says “CITE?!”, it usually irritates me. However, if someone states something controvertial or contentious as fact, and DOESN’T back it up with some kind of verification or backup, that usually qualifies for a cite prompt in my mind. For example, if someone said something wild like “Most white people in the US have had jock itch, while very few black people have.”, I would probably want verification of that statement. But if they’d said that Saturn V rockets have a payload of 118,000 kg to LEO, I’d probably not question it- I just found that on the FIRST Google entry for “Saturn V payload”, therefore any other person with 2 brain cells to rub together could also. I agree though… many people around here use it as a smart-ass argument tactic instead of a way to legitimately ask for verification of an assertion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-all-those-fuckers-that-ask-cite/218344.md?page=5)