# Pitting Amateur Barbarian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2015, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554 "2015-07-08T08:05:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/101 "2015-07-14T18:12:49Z")
Heat must be getting to you. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/102 "2015-07-14T20:57:14Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > Agreed. I don’t understand why he linked to it at all. Why didn’t he make the arguments in a normal post? It’s not like he’d have to worry about copyright or plagiarism issues. What fun is that? It’s much cooler if you bolster your arguments by citing something formatted to look like an academic paper! Unfortunately, it’s somewhat less convincing when people notice that it’s a self-published paper parked on the website of your own vanity press. What’s really hilarious is the clumsy verbal sleight-of-hand he employs; he actually says, “This paper makes…” as if it’s the _paper_ making the arguments, not him. He can cite himself _and_ have some deniability if he gets caught! This is tantamount to setting up a sock puppet account and saying “I never said that other username wasn’t me.” **AB** has made it abundantly clear that he considers himself the world’s preeminent Heinlein expert, so it’s a bit disingenuous for him to insist that he _wasn’t_ making an argument from authority. After all, this is the guy who whines and complains that the Wikipedia editors won’t bow down to him. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/103 "2015-07-14T21:07:04Z")
ISTM that the paper was much longer than you could reasonably post. > [@erysichthon](#): > > **AB** has made it abundantly clear that he considers himself the world’s preeminent Heinlein expert, so it’s a bit disingenuous for him to insist that he _wasn’t_ making an argument from authority. I don’t see how this follows. The whole issue is that he didn’t identify the author of the linked paper as himself - “the world’s preeminent Heinlein expert” - it was just a paper from a guy whose name presumably meant nothing to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/104 "2015-07-15T01:47:24Z")
Well, all I can say is that **Amateur Barbarian** has killed off any interest I might have had in reading Heinlein. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/105 "2015-07-15T01:57:42Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, all I can say is that **Amateur Barbarian** has killed off any interest I might have had in reading Heinlein. You aren’t missing anything. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/106 "2015-07-15T02:11:09Z")
Yeah! The early stuff was better than average, but the later stuff was libertarian, even objectivist, hogwash. Completely unreadable. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/107 "2015-07-15T04:14:16Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “Moreover, I confess I am, for better or worse, an online ‘personality’, as they say, of some renown,” he informed the stranger, visibly inching away on her seat. “I won’t go into details, but suffice to say that on a certain message board whose stated objective is to fight ignorance,” here he chortled, "quixotic as that goal may be—I, and a small cadre of my intellectual disciples, apply our formidable talents toward that end. A thankless job, as you may no doubt imagine, but not without its rewards. > > “In fact,” he told the back of her head, “I am, as we speak, being fêted in a sort of text-based ‘roast’, one might say. If you are unfamiliar with the term, outside of its culinary sense, of course,” he paused, waiting for a laugh, “it’s a tradition in which a noted public figure or celebrity— or in this case, both— is subjected to several rounds of good-natured needling and related hijinks by a group of his peers and admirers. On its face it may seem like criticism, even abuse, but it is among the highest of honors that a man may achieve, and I assure you,” he assured the now empty seat, “I know whence I speak, having achieved a respectable number of honors in my brief lifetime.” Impressive. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/108 "2015-07-15T14:37:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, all I can say is that **Amateur Barbarian** has killed off any interest I might have had in reading Heinlein. This is a pitting, don’t be thanking him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/109 "2015-07-15T14:57:25Z")
Heinlein deserves it much more, since he’s negatively affected far more lives. So yes, you can thank \*\*AB \*\*for not being even worse. The number of people who think they are experts in political science from reading Heinlein, and economics from reading Ayn Rand, is frightening, although most of them grow out of it by their junior year - of high school. The few who continue to think either are worth serious consideration are simply pathetic - and _that_ is enough reason to Pit _any_ of them. ---
**Author:** ![CinnamonBabka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@CinnamonBabka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CinnamonBabka)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/110 "2015-07-15T15:41:10Z")
**AB** [doesn’t believe in Economics](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18452420&postcount=162). ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/111 "2015-07-15T15:43:31Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You aren’t missing anything. Can I quote you on that? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/112 "2015-07-15T15:46:36Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Can I quote you on that? Sure. But don’t just take my word for it. [Here is a cogent argument in support of my argument](http://www.juliecarter.net/blog/2015/07/you-arent-missing-anything/)! ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/113 "2015-07-15T16:40:26Z")
> [@CinnamonBabka](#): > > **AB** [doesn’t believe in Economics](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18452420&postcount=162). McCoy: “That’s okay. I don’t believe in you, either.” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/114 "2015-07-15T16:41:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Sure. But don’t just take my word for it. [Here is a cogent argument in support of my argument](http://www.juliecarter.net/blog/2015/07/you-arent-missing-anything/)! Did you write that? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/115 "2015-07-15T16:56:39Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “Moreover, I confess I am, for better or worse, an online ‘personality’, as they say, of some renown,” he informed the stranger, visibly inching away on her seat. “I won’t go into details, but suffice to say that on a certain message board whose stated objective is to fight ignorance,” here he chortled, "quixotic as that goal may be—I, and a small cadre of my intellectual disciples, apply our formidable talents toward that end. A thankless job, as you may no doubt imagine, but not without its rewards. > > “In fact,” he told the back of her head, “I am, as we speak, being fêted in a sort of text-based ‘roast’, one might say. If you are unfamiliar with the term, outside of its culinary sense, of course,” he paused, waiting for a laugh, “it’s a tradition in which a noted public figure or celebrity— or in this case, both— is subjected to several rounds of good-natured needling and related hijinks by a group of his peers and admirers. On its face it may seem like criticism, even abuse, but it is among the highest of honors that a man may achieve, and I assure you,” he assured the now empty seat, “I know whence I speak, having achieved a respectable number of honors in my brief lifetime.” If I close my eyes I could recall the Incomparable Max across the table. ( Had he not died before I was born, of course… ) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/116 "2015-07-15T17:10:21Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Did you write that? :dubious: I believe that is her blog. Your dubious should probably be retracted. ETA: OMG. I was whooooooooooooooshed? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/117 "2015-07-15T17:12:44Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Sure. But don’t just take my word for it. Actually, I had no problem whatsoever taking _your_ word for it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/118 "2015-07-15T17:16:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > ISTM that the paper was much longer than you could reasonably post.I don’t see how this follows. The whole issue is that he didn’t identify the author of the linked paper as himself “My cite is my post!” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/119 "2015-07-15T17:17:09Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Thus confirming that you are a drooling moron. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’ll probably get you a bit more popular with the cool kids. Good luck … _swoons at Crotalus_ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554/120 "2015-07-15T17:21:25Z")
> [@CinnamonBabka](#): > > **AB** [doesn’t believe in Economics](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18452420&postcount=162). That’s not quite what he said. He said (largely correctly) that modern economic theory only makes sense if you plan for more or less permanent growth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-amateur-barbarian/724554.md?page=7)