# Pitting Biden and Anyone Else Not Supporting Immediate Expansion of the Supreme Court **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532 "2022-07-07T02:32:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/61 "2022-07-19T16:45:54Z")
The “having to do something” criticism would apply to an attempt to pack the court that is guaranteed to fail, not a legitimate attempt with a path to success. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/62 "2022-07-19T16:49:58Z")
I think your righteous indignation is getting in the way of your reading what I’ve been saying. Quick question: Do you think that it is good or bad strategy for the Democrats to hold a vote to pack the supreme court right now knowing that it will fail? If your answer to this question is no, then you and I are in agreement. That was the question I was addressing, no more no less. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/63 "2022-07-19T16:52:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It’s a matter of urgency. The Supremes are unbalanced, and they will continue to legislate from the bench until that unbalancing is somehow addressed. All Court’s “legislate from the bench” (or no courts do, depending on how you define it). Legislating from the bench isn’t the objection. Getting it wrong is the objection. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/64 "2022-07-19T17:01:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The Democrats will fail to protect democracy if they continue to be driven by fickle politics. They need to develop a long-term vision of what they want America to be. Then they need to develop a long-term strategy on how they are going to get there. > > And that strategy has to, in part, needs to revolve around the long-term marginalization of the Republican Party. The short-term focus **has** to be to hold onto the House, the Senate, and the Presidency, along with an election strategy that tells the American people what they need to do to overcome the Manchin and Sinema block. The starting point has to be to eliminate the Republican Party from existence and place its assets in a conservancy of some sort. Only then will it be safe to let the Democratic Party implode (as we all know will inevitably happen). _It’s a sin to vote for a Republican._ Pound on that, please. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/65 "2022-07-19T19:04:53Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Quick question: Do you think that it is good or bad strategy for the Democrats to hold a vote to pack the supreme court right now knowing that it will fail? > > If your answer to this question is no, then …he isn’t reading the question correctly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/66 "2022-07-19T20:58:24Z")
(…) good or bad (…) (…) answer is no (…) Please clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/67 "2022-07-19T22:50:10Z")
Grumble grumble, stupid habit editing part way through changing question formation without final proof read for clarity, grumble grumble… Quick question: Do you think that it is good strategy for the Democrats to hold a vote to pack the supreme court right now knowing that it will fail? If your answer to this question is no, then you and I are in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/68 "2022-07-20T00:22:40Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Quick question: Do you think that it is good or bad strategy for the Democrats to hold a vote to pack the supreme court right now knowing that it will fail? …the question has nothing to do with what I said. The first question the Democrats should be asking is “what other options are there to rebalance the courts.” If they decided that packing the courts was the only way to redress the rebalance, then the goal would be to move forward with a plan to pack the courts that had the greatest chance of success. And that plan would include changing the narrative. It would include Biden and Pelosi coming out in favour of it, it would include spending millions of dollars campaigning in its favour. What it wouldn’t involve is just deciding to do it tomorrow and hope for the best. There is no “vote to pack the supreme court right now knowing that it will fail” option. That isn’t on the table. My point remains the same. Unpopular ideas are only unpopular until people change their minds. If the only option to bring balance back to the courts is to pack the courts and then keep the Republicans from regaining power: the first step would be to start to change the narrative. According to the poll you cited 62% of Democrats **support** expanding the courts. A majority support expansion _right now_ even though the current Democrat leadership want nothing to do with it. > [@Procrustus](#): > > All Court’s “legislate from the bench” (or no courts do, depending on how you define it). Legislating from the bench isn’t the objection. Getting it wrong is the objection. “Getting it wrong” is a matter of opinion. For millions of people in America right now, the SCOTUS are getting everything _right_. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/69 "2022-07-20T01:30:48Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > For millions of people in America right now, the SCOTUS are getting everything _right_. Exactly! And that’s why ‘packing the courts’ is a stupid idea. One might at least try to think about what ‘packing the court’ would have meant to Civil Rights when it was conservatives wailing about the Warren court. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/70 "2022-07-20T01:59:06Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Exactly! And that’s why ‘packing the courts’ is a stupid idea. …I mean, sure. You have an unelected council of wizards that will gather one day soon and decide that gay marriage is out-of-alignment with the opinion of a long-dead-white-owner-of-slaves and decide that gay marriage will no longer be allowed. But “packing the courts” is the stupid idea. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/71 "2022-07-20T02:02:34Z")
All I can do in response is quote someone that actually understands the root of the problem, > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > For millions of people in America right now, the SCOTUS are getting everything _right_. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/72 "2022-07-20T02:04:54Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > All I can do in response is quote someone that actually understands the root of the problem, …yep. Millions of people think that SCOTUS are getting it right. Millions _more_ people think that SCOTUS are getting it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/73 "2022-07-20T03:05:23Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The first question the Democrats should be asking is “what other options are there to rebalance the courts.” If they decided that packing the courts was the only way to redress the rebalance, then the goal would be to move forward with a plan to pack the courts that had the greatest chance of success. > > And that plan would include changing the narrative. It would include Biden and Pelosi coming out in favour of it, it would include spending millions of dollars campaigning in its favour. I unfortunately don’t think the Democrats are ultimately going to be willing to pack the court if/when push comes to shove and they have the ability to do it. However, there is an alternate strategy which is that you don’t tell anyone you’re going to pack the court, you win enough congressional races that you can actually nuke the filibuster and pass a court-packing bill, you do it and you just hang on and try to survive the fallout. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/74 "2022-07-20T03:21:04Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I unfortunately don’t think the Democrats are ultimately going to be willing to pack the court if/when push comes to shove and they have the ability to do it. …oh, I’m under zero illusions that any of this is going to happen. So much more would need to happen _before_ they made the move to expand the courts. And they aren’t doing any of that. As I said, this discussion is largely academic. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > However, there is an alternate strategy which is that you don’t tell anyone you’re going to pack the court, you win enough congressional races that you can actually nuke the filibuster and pass a court-packing bill, you do it and you just hang on and try to survive the fallout. This alternate strategy needs to start with the Democrats being crystal clear on what congressional races need to be won, then putting money, resources and political capital into those races to make sure they win them. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/75 "2022-07-20T03:22:33Z")
Are you suggesting that the democrats aren’t advertising and canvassing in races they need to win in upcoming elections? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/76 "2022-07-20T03:40:03Z")
…I’m suggesting that they aren’t being crystal clear on what their strategy is going into the mid-terms. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/77 "2022-07-20T03:41:32Z")
Try to win a bunch of swing states and districts? I’m sure in 2022 there’s a way to find a pirate cable feed from a swing state and see all the political ads there. It’s not a mystery what they’re trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/78 "2022-07-20T03:47:57Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > It’s not a mystery what they’re trying to do. …what is the strategy, then? How exactly is it playing out? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/79 "2022-07-20T03:49:01Z")
Campaign in all the swing races. How is it playing out? Well current projections are that they lose the house. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532/80 "2022-07-20T03:50:16Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Well current projections are that they lose the house. …well that doesn’t sound like a very effective strategy to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-biden-and-anyone-else-not-supporting-immediate-expansion-of-the-supreme-court/967532.md?page=5)