# Pitting Black Women for Trying to Look White **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474 "2003-12-02T08:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![smam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/46a35a/32.png) [@smam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smam)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/61 "2003-12-02T15:29:28Z")
£100 for a set of ceramic hair straighteners? That’s the real issue here. Probably. I blame T.V and hair care companies, they are in cahoots. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/62 "2003-12-02T15:31:05Z")
What?? We can’t be Junior Moderators?? Does that mean my decoder ring is a fake? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/63 "2003-12-02T15:35:22Z")
Back in the 60s/early 70s I thought the Afro style looked very sexy on women. I loved running my fingers through it when I had the opportunity. My 12 year old blonde daughter every now and then gets her hair all braided up in these numerous tight threads with black extensions to look like a cute white little black girl. (I wanted to use the term _picaninny_ which sounds cute, but upon checking the spelling, I learned the term is offensive) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/64 "2003-12-02T15:36:02Z")
Sheesh. I understand the sentiment behind the OP–there’s no question that the standard of beauty (at least in this fashion cycle) is largely white-biased. That’s a real issue, IMO. But the OP is “blaming the victim,” to overstate it by quite a bit. To insist that black women (or whoever) should be limited to their own “natural”/“stereotypical” (pick your word) ethnic characteristics is to miss the point entirely. For one, the crossing, blurring, and _ignoring_ of such “racial” provinces can only be a good thing in the long run. For another, there are fewer things more arrogant than trying to get another person to conform their choices to _your_ understanding of the way things are or the way things ought to be. For a third, it smacks pretty loudly of racism. Fourth (somebody stop me!), as long as you eat nothing but boiled potatos and listen to nothing by Tyrolean clog-dancing bands, you’ve got room to talk, Hydro; until then, you should probly shut up and mind your own business. ---
**Author:** ![Marlitharn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Marlitharn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlitharn)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/65 "2003-12-02T15:36:58Z")
Psst, **Trion** …_Be sure to drink your Ovaltine!_ ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/66 "2003-12-02T15:39:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by asterion \* > \*\*Did anyone else expect this to be about Michael Jackson? \*\* OK, then how about leaving the pile-on to concentrate on a specific: what about skin lightening treatment? Jackson-style laser treatment, or the ubiquitous skin-lightening creams that one finds in the Philippines and India. Do these constitute “race betrayal”? ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/67 "2003-12-02T16:38:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by asterion \* > \*\*Did anyone else expect this to be about Michael Jackson? \*\* No that thread would be titled **Pitting Michael Jackson for trying to look like a White Woman**. ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/68 "2003-12-02T16:50:26Z")
Why is everybody piling on Hydrocortisone? He’s just trying to stand up for black people. Don’t you see? He’s saving black people from themselves…one message board at a time. Moreover, doesn’t this just totally and neatly contradict the stereotype of conservatives as racists? Hydrocortisone, you really had me fooled. You sure are open minded! Wow…is my face red now! ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Train\_Song](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/69 "2003-12-02T16:54:51Z")
I don’t agree with the OP at all but it’s interesting that if you say anything controversial or unpopular, you then become an insult target. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Train\_Song](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/70 "2003-12-02T16:58:40Z")
Seriously, If someone says something dumb (and I have) it’s like a giant flare goes off alerting everyone in which direction to fling dung. Whynot disagree and explain why? Maybe try to change his mind? ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/71 "2003-12-02T17:05:02Z")
Rooves, it’s not about controversy or saying something unpopular – not in this case, at least. Reasons have been given why Hydrocortisone’s assertion is not only wrong, but also stupid. If he really believes what he says, he should be able to back it up with a rational argument. But he can’t, because he’s stupid. And I’m sorry, though there’s no way to say “gee, you’re dumb” nicely, it still needs to be said sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/72 "2003-12-02T17:06:14Z")
> [@](#): > > it’s interesting that if you say anything controversial or unpopular, you then become an insult target. There’s a difference between saying something controversial and unpopular, and saying something stupid. > [@](#): > > Whynot disagree and explain why? Maybe try to change his mind? You mean, like countless posters in this thread have already done? Or are we not reading the same thread? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/73 "2003-12-02T17:08:54Z")
\*\* Hydrocortisone \*\*, why don’t you shut the fuck up and stop with these lame OPs. First the [Paris Hilton](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=222286) bullshit, now this moronic attempt. Get a fuckin’ grip. Ass. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/74 "2003-12-02T17:10:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rooves \* > \*\*Seriously, If someone says something dumb (and I have) it’s like a giant flare goes off alerting everyone in which direction to fling dung. > > Whynot disagree and explain why? Maybe try to change his mind? \*\* I don’t know about anybody else, but this particular dunce pissed me off. It was the condescending, I-know-what’s-right-for-you, actual pitting of yours truely for straightening my own fucking hair. If you think you’ve got the right to tell me what to do and what not to do and then insult my intelligence by primping up some bogus racial motivation for my doing it-- then be prepared for me to tell you what I think. P.S. [Here are a whole bunch of black hairstyles.](http://www.blackhairmedia.com/longhairstyles.htm) Almost all done with straightened hair (except for the set of pictures called “Natural Hairstyles”). They don’t look particularly “white” to me. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/75 "2003-12-02T17:20:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, I know! Because black people are so FUN to talk about on this freakin board! SDMB would crash if there wasn’t a discussion about black people going on somewhere. Sorry, but black people are a distant second behind gay folks as topics for discussion. At least you only get your hair dissed; we constantly have to defend our right to even exist! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/76 "2003-12-02T17:24:19Z")
If all black women let their hair be natural, then they’d be people asking why they can’t assimilate into mainstream culture more. There would be people who would cite the nappiness of their hair as the reason why they think black women are unattractive. I know someone (white) who calls all unkempt hair “nappy”, whether it really is or not. I have nappy hair but I’ll be damned if I’m going to let someone disparage it just cuz it ain’t bone straight. Did you know that many workplaces ban the wearing of braids? If you can’t wear braids and you can’t straighten your hair without being called a sell-out and you can’t wear an afro without people calling you a “nappy-headed” so-and-so, just what the hell CAN you do? You can’t please everybody all the time. Black women ain’t got time to worry about what **Hydrocortisone** or any other backseat hairdresser has got to say. It’s about survival and self-pride. Everything else is GAHBAGE. Hair is just one of those things that pushes my buttons. I was at a conference once in New Orleans (read, Humidity Land) and my hair afro-ized so much that I could have shamed both Angela Davis and Pam Grier. A guy (Fillipino) made the unfortunate mistake of disparaging my hair. I turned into Stereotypical Black Girl, swirving neck and all, and just about kicked his ass over the balconey. So watch out! ---
**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/77 "2003-12-02T17:34:33Z")
**monstro** , maybe you could do what I’ve long considered doing, especially when it’s humid around here: saying to hell with it all and shaving it all off! That’ll show 'em! 😃 –scout, who as a teen had a white girl afro ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/78 "2003-12-02T17:35:23Z")
> [@](#): > > At least you only get your hair dissed And told we shouldn’t be sensitive about “nigger”. Or beaten over the head with Affirmative Action. Or reminded how bizarre our names and fads are. Or reminded of how poor, criminal, and stupid we are. If it only were just about hair, gobear. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/79 "2003-12-02T17:36:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Did you know that many workplaces ban the wearing of braids? If you can’t wear braids and you can’t straighten your hair without being called a sell-out and you can’t wear an afro without people calling you a “nappy-headed” so-and-so, just what the hell CAN you do? WTF? Banning braids? How can a business do that wihtout getting the EEOC all over it? And IMO, the afro is due for a comeback. I always thought that black women in the 70s like Tamra Dobson and Pam Grier looked regal in their 'dos. And if the OP is giving grief to black women for messing with their hair, then what about Al Sharpton’s conk or Don King’s vertical forest? What about Bo Derek in “10” wearing corn rows? Here’s a thought; why don’t we learn to appreciate people’s variations in hair and dress and stop trying to put labels on people based on such superficialities? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/80 "2003-12-02T17:37:43Z")
I did sport the buzz cut for a year or so, **scout**. But I got tired being mistaken for a dude! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474.md?page=5)