# Pitting Black Women for Trying to Look White **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474 "2003-12-02T08:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/81 "2003-12-02T17:39:12Z")
> [@](#): > > And told we shouldn’t be sensitive about “nigger”. > > Or beaten over the head with Affirmative Action. > > Or reminded how bizarre our names and fads are. > > Or reminded of how poor, criminal, and stupid we are. > > If it only were just about hair, gobear Sigh. You’re right. Would a hug help? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/82 "2003-12-02T17:57:35Z")
It’s alright, **gobear**. In answer to your question, all I could find was this [article](http://blackmarketproducts.com/nn/index.html?location=workplace.html). > [@](#): > > In a recent case, Antoine Chambers, a six-year veteran of the Baltimore Police Department, was suspended in July when he refused to cut off his short dreadlocks in response to a new policy forbidding personnel from wearing locked hair, braids, or cornrows. > > Mr. Chambers presented a letter from a religious scholar and local councilman explaining the significance of locked hair within the Rastafarian faith, but the police department did not feel the explanation was satisfactory. > > Chambers was subsequently stripped of his police powers. The Baltimore Police Department has argued that the department has a right to establish and enforce a dress code for its officers. > > Dwight Sullivan, staff counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Maryland, says his office has called on the Baltimore Police Department to reinstate Officer Chambers, and to rescind its rules prohibiting these hairstyles. > > Mr. Sullivan notes Chambers had offered to conceal his hair under his hat - and also that white male police officers in the same division are allowed to wear ponytails. Chambers has a discrimination complaint pending with the EEOC. I know someone who worked at an animal hospital and was told by management that her braided hair was too “ethnic” and that she would be fired if she didn’t change it. Dread locks weren’t allowed when I worked at Six Flags (the policy might be different now). And although not quite the same thing, I remember my orchestra conductor back in high school forbidding anyone wearing cornrows. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/83 "2003-12-02T18:23:25Z")
All right, I’m losing the point of discussion here. Has **gobear** been trying to pass as a white woman? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/84 "2003-12-02T18:24:58Z")
Is it at all possible that maybe there are a few women out there with naturally straight, soft hair? Maybe? Just a few? ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/85 "2003-12-02T18:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by elucidator_ > Has gobear been trying to pass as a white woman? Nah, that would be too easy, seeing as how he’s white. He’s been trying to pass as a **black** woman.😃 y’know I loves ya, gobear! ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/86 "2003-12-02T19:06:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scout1222 \* > \*\*–scout, who as a teen had a white girl afro \*\* Are you **Annie Lamott**? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/87 "2003-12-02T19:10:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rooves \* > \*\*I don’t agree with the OP at all but it’s interesting that if you say anything controversial or unpopular, you then become an insult target. \*\* Gee, what a shock. Heaven forbid you post every little stupid thing and then people call you out for it. I guess you could either stop doing that, or just complain that this board isn’t very ignorance friendly. Gee, might it have been this? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=199985](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=199985) Or maybe this classic? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=208602](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=208602) That is not even counting the cat threads. Sorry chuckles, I ain’t buying it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/88 "2003-12-02T19:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*Thing I can’t figure is why **Hydrocortisone** wears his hair like [this](http://www.timewarptoys.com/61troll.jpg). \*\* “Awful, awful hair.” > [@](#): > > \*\*backseat hairdresser \*\* Fabulous! Must remember this one. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/89 "2003-12-02T19:46:52Z")
hyperbole Yeah, I think I’ll stop combing my hair, or even using conditioner on it. After all, God made it thick, of varying diameters. He MUST want my hair to be tangly right? /hyperbole Naaaah, I like not having my scalp pulled and pinched by tangles, so I’ll keep buying leave in conditioner, regular conditioner, and brushes and combs. My hair is only very slightly wavy on humid days, and it is prone to tangling. I wear it LONG. I can’t wear it pulled back at all, it will tangle horribly. Even so, it MATS overnight, so every morning I have to spend half and hour to an hour combing it smooth and sleek again. Why does this have to be about “race”? Aren’t we all of the human race? Why not let other people make decisions about what they personally find attractive, and act on them, whether they are what you’d wear or not? World wide, there are so many cultural differences in dress and speech etc. that we all end up with many choices. Why not let people who are born in one country, with other cultural heritages, decide what is best for them? (Or even in one country, with that country as thier sole genetic/cultural background.) I myself have 10 different “cultural heritages” in my family background. This is not something that is unique to the U.S.A. either. Just mind your own business, let other people do what they’d like to do, and you go on and quietly do yours. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/90 "2003-12-02T19:48:27Z")
> [@](#): > > By me: I can’t wear it pulled back at all,\* it will tangle horribly. \*at night when I sleep ---
**Author:** ![Hydrocortisone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@Hydrocortisone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hydrocortisone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/91 "2003-12-02T19:58:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you have thick, kinky hair? Do you even know how fucking hard it is to comb that every morning and make it look “right” in the eyes of society? Do you know how it feels to have people call you a “nappy-headed” so-and-so? Do you know how ugly that makes you feel? And isn’t this the point. If black women continue to straighten their hair we will continue to have a white standard of beauty. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Train\_Song](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/92 "2003-12-02T20:07:35Z")
Dear **elf number 6c** Those threads you cited have nothing to do with my comment but I’m not ashamed of them. Nor do I have any personal stake in the conversation. Other people have responded to my comments without acting like a total ass, why can’t you? So Hydro makes an ignorant generic comment and it becomes okay for everyone to take out their obvious pent up aggressions on him/her. I’m not saying a little sarcasm isn’t good or even a group repremanding but it gets to a point where you guys are beating a dead horse. Kinda reminds me of people kicking reginal denny in the head only because other people were doing it too. It’s a mob mentality. Fuck yourself “chuckles” ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/93 "2003-12-02T20:08:21Z")
Get a clue **Hydro** It’s about TANGLES!!! Have you ever had mats and tangles clear to your scalp, and wept while using a comb as you tried to alleviate a massive headache caused by the mat pulling your scalp? Have you? I have, and I can commiserrate with anyone who has to go through that. Guess what? I am not so lucky that a simple hair appointment would solve the majority of my problem, oh no. My hair is already pretty well straight, it just tangles very easily, no matter what it’s length. So, I don’t get the easier out. Mind your own busineess. If some ladies don’t want, or have an hour or more each morning to deal with tangles, and DO have the money to straighten their hair, it’s their business, not yours. Let them be. ---
**Author:** ![LilCutie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@LilCutie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilCutie)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/94 "2003-12-02T21:32:31Z")
Like others have stated, straightening our hair isn’t about looking white. It’s more about being able to get a comb through it without busting out into tears. I have girls in my family who have beautiful curly hair, and they are fine with it, because they can comb it. Mine is not the case. Plain and simple it is just easier to do. **Hydrocortisone** YOU are making this into a Want-to-be-white issue. YOU see that as the norm, because a lot of white women wear their hair that way, thus we MUST be trying to conform to them. Not. True. Not that non-black people cannot care about issues that concern black people, its more of a “you have no clue what it’s like so you cannot tell me that’s the reason.” Because i’m sure there are PLENTY of white women who have curly, thick, tangled hair who get it straightened. Until you have thick, curly, hard to manage hair, you really have nothing to say. Jenny\* ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/95 "2003-12-02T21:39:45Z")
Note: I am of primarily Celtic heritage, I have various ancestors that were Welsh, Scottish and Irish. My father has the long, “spiritual” Welsh face, and his mother was named Rowena. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/96 "2003-12-02T21:54:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*P.S. [Here are a whole bunch of black hairstyles.](http://www.blackhairmedia.com/longhairstyles.htm) Almost all done with straightened hair (except for the set of pictures called “Natural Hairstyles”). They don’t look particularly “white” to me. \*\* from the link: > [@](#): > > The Main Switch > Middletown, CT The model for that one is HOT!!! And the OP is still an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/97 "2003-12-02T21:57:10Z")
I also have Native American heritage, which is why my hair is so thick, and slick, and doesn’t want to stay in a braid without lots of gel, and wet plaiting. At least according to my Native American friends from Oklahoma, that is why. They tease me that I have “Indian Hair” just like them, which has a mind of it’s own. They too, have to deal with tangles. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/98 "2003-12-02T22:01:12Z")
> [@](#): > > If black women continue to straighten their hair we will continue to have a white standard of beauty. Black women make up, what, 6% of the US population? Do you really think that if we stopped straightening our hair, folks would change their minds about what is beautiful? I mean, 50% of the population is overweight but our standard still says that beauty = thin. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/99 "2003-12-02T22:03:25Z")
Yeah, and people like to look at those who take care of themselves, tangles=unkempt=undesirable. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474/100 "2003-12-02T23:37:48Z")
Y’know, I’m a black female with dreadlocks, and I have at least a passing familiarity with most of the arguments for women ‘going natural’. This has to be one of the worst presentations of the idea that I’ve ever heard. I hope no one straightens their hair in protest thanks to this thread, because that was my first impulse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-black-women-for-trying-to-look-white/216474.md?page=6)