# Pitting calm kiwi and others like him/her. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840 "2009-04-12T14:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Varrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e9a140/32.png) [@Varrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Varrius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/1 "2009-04-12T14:04:13Z")
> [@Those who shall be, forever mocked](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-shall-be-forever-mocked/492351/67): > > How has name George W Bush not come up yet? Seriously! He is the worst joke the world has seen in recent memory. > > America (sadly) will have to live with his name for a long, long time. I am sick of people like you making inane comments like this about the President of the United States! I am not defending any of his actions, nor am I condemning any. I am not saying that President Bush was a good/bad president. This rant is not about that. If you want to make a specific comment about **something he did** then by all means, bring some facts to support your point and flame on. I may agree or disagree with your opinion of the actions and we can have a civil discussion about it. But to out-and-out attack the person is reprehensible. I just wish I could go one day without hearing or reading something from the fucking “Bush-hating Bandwagon”, especially those who _ **don’t even live in this country** _ who resort to sophomoric name-calling. Just for the record - I have the same emotion toward anybody, American or not, (e.g. comedians) who make personal attacks at the President ( **any** President, not just Bush). I think it is absolutely disrespectful of the position of the office, and I take all of these as a personal insult of this country. You all have the right to dislike The United States of America, and in this country you have the right to say what you wish. If you don’t like the USA and you live here - either do something positive to make it better, or STFU and GTFO. If don’t like the USA and you don’t live here - good, STFO. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/2 "2009-04-12T14:14:54Z")
> [@Varrius](#): > > If don’t like the USA and you don’t live here - good, STFO. There you go Dubya wouldn’t have been able to spell that last bit. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/3 "2009-04-12T14:24:09Z")
> [@Varrius](#): > > I think it is absolutely disrespectful of the position of the office, and I take all of these as a personal insult of this country. Is it possible to personally insult a country? Anyway, this rant is weak piss. Style yourself as leader of the free world, and the free world is going to take potshots at you. GTF (as you say) over it. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/4 "2009-04-12T14:36:39Z")
On the SDMB, you will receive praise and admiration when you trash GWB. But say one negative thing about BHO and you get pounced on. In my opinion, GWB was an incompetent president. But many presidents were incompetent. BHO, in my opinion, is also an incompetent president. He’s also a lying scumbag, IMO, but that’s another program. ---
**Author:** ![ReuvenB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@ReuvenB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReuvenB)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/5 "2009-04-12T14:42:35Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > He’s also a lying scumbag, IMO, but that’s another program. Can I have a cite, or are you just a drive-by douchebag? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/6 "2009-04-12T14:43:19Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > BHO, in my opinion, is also an incompetent president. He’s also a lying scumbag, IMO, but that’s another program. How dare you insult the Obamessiah! He is the savior of the free world! He will repair the economy, bring peace to the Middle East, and teach us all how to love and understand our fellow man. Also, he makes a mean peach cobbler. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/7 "2009-04-12T14:47:11Z")
Am I to understand “Foreigners” aren’t allowed to have opinions on international public figures and heads of state, then? By that logic, you (being a “Foreigner”) aren’t allowed to say anything negative about The Queen or Kevin Rudd, right? **Calm Kiwi** is right. It’s going to take the US a long time to restore the damage Dubya has done to your international reputation. It’s entirely possible to like a country and not like the head of state. Lots of people like the US but don’t like Dubya (yes, I know he’s not El Presidente anymore). I don’t see a problem with that viewpoint. The man did a lot of Very Silly Things whilst he was in charge, and that’s not open to debate- Mongolian Yak Shepherds know that Dubya did some Very Silly Things as El Presidente, for smeg’s sake. Incidentally, “Stay the fuck out” is not an attitude you want to be adopting towards foreign tourists when your economy is in the state it’s currently in, either. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/8 "2009-04-12T14:59:10Z")
Kinda pointless to complain about hating on a message board that’s pretty much devoted to hating anything and anyone that doesn’t toe the party line. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/9 "2009-04-12T15:00:20Z")
> [@Varrius](#): > > Just for the record - I have the same emotion toward anybody, American or not, (e.g. comedians) who make personal attacks at the President ( **any** President, not just Bush). I think it is absolutely disrespectful of the position of the office, and I take all of these as a personal insult of this country. I think there’s a logical inconsistency here. If it’s a personal attack, how is it disrespectful of the office, or the country. If I say, “Carter had big teeth and a dopey accent”, that’s a mild personal attack and says nothing of the office. If I say “The US is a nation of dupes, and the presidency is a farce” that could be disrespectful of the office and an insult to the country. > [@Varrius](#): > > If you don’t like the USA and you live here - either do something positive to make it better, or STFU and GTFO. > > If don’t like the USA and you don’t live here - good, STFO. Those are two options. What are you instructions for people who like the US and live there. Can they STFU as well? Do only people who don’t like the US have to STFU? How 'bout this. I’m a US citizen who lives outside the US \*. I think Bush was a terrible president, not the least for his misguided invasion of Iraq. - I have an “America: Love it or Leave it” sticker on my laptop. It changes it’s apparent meaning as I cross the border. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/10 "2009-04-12T15:15:43Z")
What if I like the USA, live here, and think that Bush was a horrible president? What am I allowed to do then? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/11 "2009-04-12T15:18:04Z")
> [@Varrius](#): > > Just for the record - I have the same emotion toward anybody, American or not, (e.g. comedians) who make personal attacks at the President ( **any** President, not just Bush). I think it is absolutely disrespectful of the position of the office, and I take all of these as a personal insult of this country. So saying that Nixon was a bad man for instigating Watergate or Kennedy really screwed the pooch when he approved the Bay of Pigs operation is totally verboten? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/12 "2009-04-12T15:19:10Z")
> [@XWalrus2](#): > > Can I have a cite, or are you just a drive-by douchebag? I need a cite for my opinion? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/13 "2009-04-12T15:22:14Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I need a cite for my opinion? :dubious: According to several of my lecturers at university, yes, you do. Annoys the hell out of me no end as well; I’ve had some very “involved” discussions with them about how “My Opinion” is not something you can provide a cite for… ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/14 "2009-04-12T15:23:33Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > In my opinion, GWB was an incompetent president. But many presidents were incompetent. BHO, in my opinion, is also an incompetent president. He’s also a lying scumbag, IMO, but that’s another program. Aren’t they ALL lying scumbags to some extent? How do you know a politician is lying? His lips are moving. Obama might be a lying scumbag (I personally think it’s too soon to tell, and would like to know specifically what you’re referring to so I can judge for myself), but Bush definitely was. So was Clinton, Reagan, etc. Who gives a fuck? I just care about how they affect my life, and so far, Bush has fucked it up, definitely. I’ll give Obama his fair shot to unfuck it or fuck it more. Only time will tell. > [@Martini Enfield](#): > > By that logic, you (being a “Foreigner”) aren’t allowed to say anything negative about The Queen or Kevin Rudd, right? Come on now, Mr. Enfield. How many Americans even know who Kevin Rudd is? And I have almost never heard anyone express an opinion about the Queen. Americans just don’t care about the Queen. They cared about Princess Di, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/15 "2009-04-12T15:29:49Z")
> [@Varrius](#): > > I just wish I could go one day without hearing or reading something from the fucking “Bush-hating Bandwagon”, especially those who _ **don’t even live in this country** _ who resort to sophomoric name-calling. Yeah, how dare those furriners act like our president has any effect on them! ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/16 "2009-04-12T15:30:09Z")
> [@Varrius](#): > > I am sick of people like you making inane comments like this about the President of the United States! > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > On the SDMB, you will receive praise and admiration when you trash GWB. But say one negative thing about BHO and you get pounced on. > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > How dare you insult the Obamessiah! He is the savior of the free world! He will repair the economy, bring peace to the Middle East, and teach us all how to love and understand our fellow man. Also, he makes a mean peach cobbler. > [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > Kinda pointless to complain about hating on a message board that’s pretty much devoted to hating anything and anyone that doesn’t toe the party line. If you don’t like what the people around here say, why don’t you get the fuck out?? Ha! _That’s_ not stupid! ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/17 "2009-04-12T15:30:46Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Come on now, Mr. Enfield. How many Americans even know who Kevin Rudd is? And I have almost never heard anyone express an opinion about the Queen. Americans just don’t care about the Queen. They cared about Princess Di, but that’s about it. That still doesn’t change my point. Not my fault your average American can’t name our Prime Minister or form an opinion on Her Majesty- if someone here on the boards in the US was interested in Australian politics for God knows whatever reason, I hardly think it’s fair to tell them to STFU because they don’t live in Australia. The President of the US is a public figure and as such their actions are open for discussion by all and sundry. The fact people choose not to discuss King Albert II of Belgium’s leadership or Ahmed Nazif’s Prime Ministership of Egypt doesn’t change the fact that anyone should be entitled to have those discussions- and form opinions of those people and their actions- regardless of who they are or where they live. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/18 "2009-04-12T15:31:43Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > How many Americans even know who Kevin Rudd is? Duh, he’s that actor who married Phoebe in the last season of ‘Friends.’ Never realized he was one of those limeys, though. Yeah, I know, the actor is Paul Rudd ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/19 "2009-04-12T15:36:46Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > That still doesn’t change my point. Not my fault your average American can’t name our Prime Minister or form an opinion on Her Majesty- if someone here on the boards in the US was interested in Australian politics for God knows whatever reason, I hardly think it’s fair to tell them to STFU because they don’t live in Australia. I was kidding, but really, your politics just don’t affect us. No one in America knows who Kevin Rudd is (I’m sure someone will be along presently to argue with me, but I feel confident that very few people in America do), and Your Queen is irrelevant as far as world decision making goes, so no, it’s not really a fair comparison, is it? But I agree with your general point, that people should be able to comment on whatever they want to, whether it be Bush, Obama, the Queen, or whomever. Just don’t expect any Americans getting hot under the collar about Kevin Rudd anytime soon. Also, question: would you get huffy and defensive if an American told you that your Queen was a useless figurehead and waste of taxpayer money, and a bit of a ridiculous affectation to boot? I certainly heard some guffawing about Michelle Obama’s “faux pas” of daring to touch Her Freakin’ Majesty, and how absurd the whole thing was. Wouldn’t some British subjects wish that the boorish, ignorant American just STFU about the Queen, since we don’t know what we’re talking about and have no right to an opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Varrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e9a140/32.png) [@Varrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Varrius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840/20 "2009-04-12T15:37:13Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > So saying that Nixon was a bad man for instigating Watergate or Kennedy really screwed the pooch when he approved the Bay of Pigs operation is totally verboten? Saying Nixon did a bad thing or Kennedy did the wrong thing is different than the post about which I started this thread. As I said, if you want to express an opinion about someone’s action, that is fine. Calling the President of The United States a “joke” is not. Folks, I realize that I opened my shirt and pointed to a “big red button” when I started this thread. I also realize that many people don’t share my opinion (my wife is one) about making fun of, or insulting the President. Finally, I recognize that my emotions about the practice do not seem logical to many people. I can accept that. I love my country, and as a career military officer, have defended the USA every day for literally my entire adult life. I just get really tired of the continuous stream of diatribe about ANY president that is wholly name-calling that serves no useful purpose. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-calm-kiwi-and-others-like-him-her/492840.md?page=2)