# Pitting crappy action movies and killing families **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** netflix, movies\ **Created:** [October 13, 2024, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710 "2024-10-13T10:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/21 "2024-10-14T21:45:53Z")
That’s kinda what I was thinking, too. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/22 "2024-10-14T21:52:33Z")
Interesting to look at the best revenge story ever written: _The Count of Monte Cristo_. The vengeance isn’t for killing family; it’s for betraying the protagonist. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Is it right to take the law into your own hands and become a vigilante? A profound question covered in film with depth and sensitivity nowhere. Absolutely–but covered with perfection by The Count, over about twelve hundred pages. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/23 "2024-10-14T22:10:28Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > > [@carrps](#): > > > > So. Do you think he got away with it??? > > I think so. He left his confession in the cell when he was released, but the prison governor would oblige him by retrieving it without snooping Regarding the ending of Kind Hearts and Coronets, my thinking is that, even though this wasn’t an American production subject to the Hays Code, the movie studio would not have wanted to explicitly show that Louis got away with his _many_ crimes. Hence the ending was left ambiguous. I’m curious how the original novel ended. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/24 "2024-10-14T22:19:20Z")
Interesting. The Hays Code has a _lot_ to answer for. I enjoy watching pre-code movies on TCM – even when they’re not great movies – because they’re so much more honest than the later ones subject to the Code. And its effects were felt well into the 60s! ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/25 "2024-10-14T22:37:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m curious how the original novel ended. > **[Kind Hearts and Coronets: from 'antisemitic' novel to classic film | Peter...](https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2009/nov/12/kind-hearts-and-coronets)** > > Peter Bradshaw: The 60th anniversary of Robert Hamer's Ealing classic Kind Hearts and Coronets is the perfect time to get acquainted with the witty, provocative book from which it is adapted ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/26 "2024-10-14T23:26:18Z")
Very interesting. I found a copy on amazon, and I’ll read it. I read a lot of old books, and it’s always upsetting to see how completely unthinking prejudices are in them. If it’s an American book published prior to 1940, it’s almost inevitable that the n-word will be used at least once. And often for no real reason! That’s what I mean by unthinking. White people back then never even thought about using the word very casually, and it’s so jarring when (especially) reading a fairly light-hearted book to have that word leap out and slap one in the face. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/27 "2024-10-17T16:40:51Z")
So… you were just reading, and suddenly n•words slapped your face? But, anyway, there are so few revenge flicks’ that can be considered a quality film… but _Memento_ is considered a revenge film, and it’s one of my favorites. (And it’s a good reminder to me and my bad memory to write things down quickly before I forget them.) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/28 "2024-10-17T18:22:04Z")
> [@digs](#): > > So… you were just reading, and suddenly n•words slapped your face? It feels like a slap in the face. And so often it’s gratuitous. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/29 "2024-10-17T19:08:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > how Ozymandias’ plan is doomed to fail. Oh his plan was successfully executed, it was just ultimately for nought. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/30 "2024-10-17T19:13:58Z")
Thanks. I read that and also read the last chapter of the novel. It was _somewhat_ different, though the main character did get away with his crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/31 "2024-10-17T19:16:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Interesting to look at the best revenge story ever written: _The Count of Monte Cristo_. The vengeance isn’t for killing family; it’s for betraying the protagonist. _Fourteen years_ in a dungeon that makes a modern supermax look like a hotel, with the best years of your adult life gone, is no small thing. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > > Is it right to take the law into your own hands and become a vigilante? A profound question covered in film with depth and sensitivity nowhere. > > Absolutely–but covered with perfection by The Count, over about twelve hundred pages. Especially because it takes place in a period of upheaval where whose or what law there may be was up for grabs. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/32 "2024-10-17T19:29:57Z")
I just ordered this classic from Amazon - annotated Penguin edition, translation by Robin Buss. Thanks to LHoD and Lumpy for the recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/33 "2024-10-17T19:35:46Z")
As I _remember_ the story of The Count of Monte Cristo, the main character doesn’t even know initially why he was arrested and imprisoned. Only later does he discover the true reasons for it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/34 "2024-10-17T19:46:14Z")
(spoilers not needed, I hope?) Especially rueful because he was under the impression that he was reporting there for an official duty, only to be summarily held and imprisoned. Like if a police detective visited a penitentiary only for the authorities to refuse to release him. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/35 "2024-10-17T19:48:31Z")
The initial imprisonment is only the start of the story so I doubt anyone will yell. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/36 "2024-10-17T22:53:27Z")
And its criticism\* of the ‘heros’ was not spoon fed and completely missed by the vast majority of viewers I suspect. Rorschach’s ‘you’re locked in here with me’ bit is a popular meme. Your commentary is one of the few acknowledgements I have seen that Rorshach and his buddies were dangerous psychopaths no better than the villians they opposed. Even action movies built around criticism of action heros such as Watchmen or Starship Troopers are still full of stupid cinematic violence. - I threw ‘meta’ in there at first but the movie’s narrative is mainly about the depravity of the various heros, I assume the original comic was the same. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/37 "2024-10-17T23:01:07Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > I assume the original comic was the same. If you haven’t read it, I’d really recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/38 "2024-10-17T23:04:29Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > Your commentary is one of the few acknowledgements I have seen that Rorshach and his buddies were dangerous psychopaths no better than the villians they opposed. The comic makes it more explicit - Rorschach is a moral absolutist whose worldview doesn’t allow for any shades of gray, he envisions himself as the only morally pure soul in a world of sinners and degenerates, and he gets all his information from far-right newsletters full of propaganda about Communists and homosexuals. In the real world he’d be the equivalent of that guy who charged into a pizzeria with a gun demanding to see the child slavery tunnels. Ozymandias is an Elon Musk type who thinks he can save the world but doesn’t even understand basic human nature. The Comedian is a psychopath who enjoys hurting and dominating people and would probably be a serial killer if he didn’t have an outlet. Silk Spectre was forced into the job and is stuck trying to live up to her mother’s legacy. Dr. Manhattan has become so detached from what it is to be human that he no longer understands humanity. Nite Owl is the closest thing the story has to a traditional superhero, but he’s still an antisocial loner with imposter syndrome and a bunch of weird sexual hangups. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/39 "2024-10-17T23:11:32Z")
Yeah it would probably be a good read. Ive had an aversion to graphic novels ever since someone tried to sing their praises of Frank Miller to me way back when. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710/40 "2024-10-17T23:14:38Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > Your commentary is one of the few acknowledgements I have seen that Rorshach and his buddies were dangerous psychopaths no better than the villians they opposed. > “I wanted to kind of make this like, ‘Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world’. But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans, that smelling, not having a girlfriend—these are actually kind of heroic! So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example. But I have people come up to me in the street saying, "I am Rorschach! That is my story!’ And I’ll be thinking: ‘Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live’?” -Alan Moore, creator of Watchmen [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-crappy-action-movies-and-killing-families/1008710.md?page=3)