# Pitting double standards: Boy bullied, stripped by girls, video posted, no charges **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267 "2011-06-04T00:37:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/81 "2011-06-04T11:53:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Almost certainly there are more female on male violence cases than gets reported. Of course. One not getting reported makes this statement true. I think you mean to say a significant number of cases don’t get reported. I imagine the percentage of male victims (female perpetrator) reporting is significantly less than female victims (male perpetrator). Sorry for the pedantic nit-pick. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/82 "2011-06-04T11:58:49Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > What frigging testimony do they need? They fucking have video footage. There can be no not guilty plea on that shit. Yes. This case has “plea bargain” stamped on it in 72-pt Times New Roman. That is, if charges are levied. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/83 "2011-06-04T12:03:47Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Right, but as I mentioned you can post a link and comment. You don’t have to say you like it. I mean if it’s really important you can take five more seconds. > … > Word mean things. > … > Maybe there is a Facebook group for people like me. Not with attitudes like that, buster. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/84 "2011-06-04T12:23:42Z")
“The difference here, I think, is the idjits filmed their exploits and they posted it for the world to see.” Which as not particularly unusual these days and I took that into account with my statement. The only thing that made this particularly newsworthy was the gender reversal. [http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/09/2209178/school-bullying-widely-underreported.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/09/2209178/school-bullying-widely-underreported.html) Might give some context on this case not being prosecuted. Otara ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/85 "2011-06-04T13:19:35Z")
> [@statisticsnerd](#): > > Press charges? > > They’re 11 year old kids acting like 11 year old kids. Give me a break. We all did stupid stuff when we were that age. No, all of us did not do stupid, cruel things. At 11 years old I was capable of doing a number of very adult crimes ranging form shoplifting to drug delivery, but I already understood that cruelly humilating someone for my own amusement was morally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/86 "2011-06-04T13:21:33Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > “The difference here, I think, is the idjits filmed their exploits and they posted it for the world to see.” > > Which as not particularly unusual these days and I took that into account with my statement. The only thing that made this particularly newsworthy was the gender reversal. > > [http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/09/2209178/school-bullying-widely-underreported.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/09/2209178/school-bullying-widely-underreported.html) > > Might give some context on this case not being prosecuted. > > Otara There was no gender reversal. Fourteen-year old guys don’t regularly go around taking the clothes off of younger girls. It would be seen as far worse than bullying–and rape or assault would be assumed. Now, if it were all males, then you might have a case. Heck, I can see it being all females, based on what my sister told me about the girls she knew in highschool. And as much as I’m loathe to say it, **Dio** has a point. I do think it would be more likely that a guy would do this for a sexual thrill, not just bullying, since seeing the opposite sex naked seems to have a more sexual reaction in males. While it is still technically sexual assault, I think it more likely that these girls did not have any sexual thoughts in their mind. I just disagree when he tried to make it seem like it was no big deal. For that, I agree with **AClockworkMelon**. It’s still a big deal either way. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/87 "2011-06-04T13:26:28Z")
The more I think about this case, the more I think nothing could be more appropriate than to have these girls arrested and strip searched by large pissed off female cops who don’t hesitate to tell them this is what they deserve for what they did to that boy. Maybe they could put bars over the eyes and pixelate the genitals and put it online, complete with a cop asking them, “How does it feel like to have it done to you?” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/88 "2011-06-04T13:57:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The youth of the girls plays into this. They’re only eleven. This was bullying, but calling it a “sexual assault” is a bit much. No, the victim was eleven. The girls are several years older. Let’s get our facts straight. The perpetrators are not 11 years old. They are 13-14. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/89 "2011-06-04T14:17:10Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The more I think about this case, the more I think nothing could be more appropriate than to have these girls arrested and strip searched by large pissed off female cops who don’t hesitate to tell them this is what they deserve for what they did to that boy. Maybe they could put bars over the eyes and pixelate the genitals and put it online, complete with a cop asking them, “How does it feel like to have it done to you?” Have you read that back to yourself, remembering that you’re talking about 13 year olds here? That still seems an appropriate reaction, does it? As to the OP, I’m with you. I think there would be a massive reaction if the genders were reversed in this, and I am appalled that this is being minimised as it is. I can understand entirely the boy’s desire not to make a fuss over it - but if no one pushes this, it sends a message that this kind of thing is ok. As well as perpetuating a double standard that’s frankly disturbing. Also, **Dio** , what happened to your strength of feeling on child sexual assault here? “Just a bit of bullying” would play if it was your daughter stripped and filmed by older kids, would it? If not, I’d be fascinated to hear why you think the gender of the victim makes this more ok. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/90 "2011-06-04T14:43:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No, the victim was eleven. The girls are several years older. > > Let’s get our facts straight. The perpetrators are not 11 years old. They are 13-14. And at that age , especially comparing the advanced puberty onset for girls compared to boys, even an individual girl could have had her way with the boy. That age difference is huge. As far as taking the clothes off a victim not being rape, I call bullshit. Perhaps I’m showing my age, but in the sixties, ripping off a girls blouse and bra to expose her breasts would have been classified as rape. That is what I was taught and I remember clearly. As an old codger remembering what it was like to be 11 years old, I’d have rather had one of these girls fuck my embarrassingly puny prepubescent dick in private than be overpowered by three girls stripping me naked and showing of my puny privates for all the world to see. Over and over. Pause whereever the viewer wants to have a good look. This will affect the boy for the rest of his life. He’s been scarred. He may well become impotent. How is this not rape ?! And **Dio** , is this not worse for the boy than having a dildo inserted up his ass while he’s asleep? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/91 "2011-06-04T15:28:18Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > And at that age , especially comparing the advanced puberty onset for girls compared to boys, even an individual girl could have had her way with the boy. That age difference is huge. > > As far as taking the clothes off a victim not being rape, I call bullshit. Perhaps I’m showing my age, but in the sixties, ripping off a girls blouse and bra to expose her breasts would have been classified as rape. That is what I was taught and I remember clearly. > > As an old codger remembering what it was like to be 11 years old, I’d have rather had one of these girls fuck my embarrassingly puny prepubescent dick in private than be overpowered by three girls stripping me naked and showing of my puny privates for all the world to see. Over and over. Pause whereever the viewer wants to have a good look. > > This will affect the boy for the rest of his life. He’s been scarred. He may well become impotent. > > How is this not rape ?! We’d need a lawyer to say for sure (IANAL) but I thought _mens rea_ was a necessary element of a crime. Basically, the person has to have the intent to commit that crime. Imagine a 4 year-old yanking the bikini top off a woman or grabs her boob. No one would say the 4 year old is a rapist because such is not in his mind. Here too I seriously doubt anything sexual was in these girls’ minds. I do think, if genders were reversed, it is possible a case might be made for attempted rape but even that is a stretch. Sexual assault maybe. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/92 "2011-06-04T15:44:19Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > As far as taking the clothes off a victim not being rape, I call bullshit. Perhaps I’m showing my age, but in the sixties, ripping off a girls blouse and bra to expose her breasts would have been classified as rape. That is what I was taught and I remember clearly. > > … > > How is this not rape ?! Then, with all due respect, you were either taught wrong or your memory is addled. Rape requires penetration. Removing someone’s clothes simply isn’t rape. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/93 "2011-06-04T15:49:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > We’d need a lawyer to say for sure (IANAL) but I thought _mens rea_ was a necessary element of a crime. Basically, the person has to have the intent to commit that crime. _Mens rea_ is an intent to commit the act, not to commit the crime. There’s no requirement one intends to break a law. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/94 "2011-06-04T16:03:21Z")
> [@villa](#): > > _Mens rea_ is an intent to commit the act, not to commit the crime. There’s no requirement one intends to break a law. Important distinction. But what defines the “act”? A four year-old may fully intend to yank the bikini-top off a woman just because it somehow seems like a good idea to him at the time. His desire to do so is not sexual and no one would deem it a sexual assault (or even a plain-old assault). Substitute 4 year-old with mentally handicapped person if you want (to get past the age thing and more into the person’s mind and intent). If I did the above I’d get arrested (and rightly so). Same act but the difference is I know better and will be held accountable. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/95 "2011-06-04T16:07:28Z")
Right, but there’s absolutely no requirement you know you are committing a crime. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/96 "2011-06-04T16:30:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Here too I seriously doubt anything sexual was in these girls’ minds. How often have I been told that rape has nothing to do with sexual urges?Something about a desire to exert their power over someone else? Seems like power is the key word here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/97 "2011-06-04T16:37:13Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Then, with all due respect, you were either taught wrong or your memory is addled. Rape requires penetration. Removing someone’s clothes simply isn’t rape. With all due respect. the penetration requirement depends on jurisdiction. In some places the term is even restricted to sexual intercourse. But back in the day, before the term sexual assault took hold and adopted in legal texts all we had was the charge of rape for forcibly removing a girls clothes. At least that was the way I remember it. In Canada. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/98 "2011-06-04T16:46:04Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > With all due respect. the penetration requirement depends on jurisdiction. In some places the term is even restricted to sexual intercourse. But back in the day, before the term sexual assault took hold and adopted in legal texts all we had was the charge of rape for forcibly removing a girls clothes. At least that was the way I remember it. In Canada. Then it’s going to be pretty easier for you to cite to, I’m sure. Even absent sexual assault laws/terminology, such behavior would be prosecutable in English law based- systems as assault or other crime against the person. It could not be prosecuted as rape, regardless of your recollection. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/99 "2011-06-04T16:49:08Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > That kid is going to be fine. In a few years it’ll change from an embarrassing story to an erotic story. Personal story: in 10th grade, some girl (don’t recall her face) had a bunch of guy-friends tackle me _right_ in front of the school office, then hold me down while she kissed me. (This all happened during passing period when the halls were filled.) As they all left and laughed, I embarrassedly picked up my books and went to class. Everyone had heard about it by the end of the day. My true friends didn’t press the issue, but I got teased for weeks about it. For the rest of the year, I avoided talking to girls, even ones that were previous friends, for fear that I was being set-up again. This incident, coupled with not being sexually mature until 12th grade and a history of being a “cry baby” until 7th grade, sparked rumors that I was gay. So even when I’d recovered enough to talk to girls, they all dismissed me because I was “gay”. (This was back when even the modicum of tolerance that exists today was non-existent. [I had a friend commit suicide because he was gay, and was sure his parents would disown him, to let you know the attitude of the times.]) I quit going to school activities unless they were mandatory for a grade. Didn’t go to a single high-school dance, not even a prom. (But I had gone to every junior high dance.) I didn’t even have my first romantic kiss until a non-high-school even when I was 17. College was a godsend. Even though it was in the same city, the jumble-up of my classmates going away and new 18-year-olds coming to attend college meant that a minor few people from HS were at my college. I had plenty of new friends that respected me for me. Even went to a prom, because my girlfriend was a high-school senior, and shot her esteem up for going out with a college man 2 years her senior. So, while I had 3 years of hell in high school just from a minor “infraction”, that poor boy has probably got 7 years of pure torture ahead of him, unless his family moves to somewhere where they don’t know him. “Erotic Story” my ass! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267/100 "2011-06-04T17:30:34Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Rape requires penetration. Removing someone’s clothes simply isn’t rape. From the [Dean of students at Clark University](http://www.clarku.edu/offices/dos/survivorguide/definition.cfm) > [@](#): > > Rape and/or sexual assault is forced, manipulated, or coerced **sexual contact** by a stranger, friend or acquaintance… Sexual contact ? Lets get the legal definition of sexual contact from the [Free Dictionary](http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Rape+and+Sexual+Assault) > [@](#): > > The United States Code uses two terms to distinguish between different sexual activities: > Sexual act: contact between penis and vagina or penis and anus that involves penetration; contact between the mouth and genitals or anus; penetration of the vagina or anus with an object; or direct touching (not through clothing) of the genitals of an individual under the age of 16. > **Sexual contact** : intentional touching of the genitals, breasts, buttocks, anus, inner thigh, or groin **with no sexual penetration**. -bolding mine Lets leave it to the lawyers to determine if you can rip the clothes off someone without touching their breasts or buttocks or whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-double-standards-boy-bullied-stripped-by-girls-video-posted-no-charges/584267.md?page=6)