# Pitting either a)careless or b)intentionally ambigous or c)outright inflammatory email **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847 "2010-01-13T22:45:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/21 "2010-01-14T02:15:09Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > Because I’m a closet optimist, I choose (a), simply because it seems as if this surprises the OP. If this were something he/she had seen a lot of, there wouldn’t be much of a question. > > But I agree with the others. Suggest they honor some well-known conservatives and/or Caucasians in the same manner. Suggest they honor President’s Day with a Reagan photo and see what happens. If the intent is to honor rather than denigrate the person, then there should be no controversy. How about a Harvey Milk target? The San Francisco chapter certainly will be on board for that! Maybe notify the San Francisco Chronicle beforehand, so the public can see how heroes are honored by this group. ETA: Dang, beat to the punch on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/22 "2010-01-14T02:41:04Z")
Just received word that the MLK target has been dropped from the shooting event. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/23 "2010-01-14T02:44:16Z")
Could you try to figure out whether it was, indeed, supposed to be an actual target OF him, i.e. you were supposed to shoot at a figure of Martin Luther King in such a way that if it were a real man, he would be killed? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/24 "2010-01-14T02:55:20Z")
I don’t buy the disclaimer for a second. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/25 "2010-01-14T02:56:54Z")
I suspect there was a “plant” inside the Pink Pistols by some anti-gun group to do this and make them look bad. The Pink Pistols is a very progressive group and aside from the 2nd amendment tends to be liberal-leaning socially. I could imagine a lot of people doing this, but not them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/26 "2010-01-14T03:24:56Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I suspect there was a “plant” inside the Pink Pistols by some anti-gun group to do this and make them look bad. The Pink Pistols is a very progressive group and aside from the 2nd amendment tends to be liberal-leaning socially. I could imagine a lot of people doing this, but not them. :rolleyes: You will never ever admit that anyone with a gun could possibly doing anything stupid, will you? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/27 "2010-01-14T03:27:36Z")
Did you completely miss the part of my post where I actually said “I could imagine a lot of people doing this, but not them [the Pink Pistols]”? Either you missed that, i.e. you were not reading what I wrote carefully, or you saw it but chose to willfully ignore it, i.e. you’re putting words into my mouth. Neither of those options reflect very well on _you._ Of course people with guns do stupid shit all the time. I just do not think that a progressive, liberal-leaning, LGBT-oriented gun group would shoot at a target of Martin Luther King. Either we are not getting the straight story here on what exactly the target was (my best guess) or this is some kind of hatchet job (my next best guess.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/28 "2010-01-14T03:39:22Z")
Progressive, liberal-leaning LGBT people can still be racists. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/29 "2010-01-14T03:40:28Z")
I guess, but seriously, an MLK target is like something from South Park, a very broad over-the-top caricature of what a racist gun-nut is supposed to be like. I strongly lean towards a combination of “not getting the whole story” and “very poor choice of words.” As of now I’m still waiting for some more information about just what these targets that “commemorate individuals, achievements, and events of significance” are. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/30 "2010-01-14T03:43:12Z")
Actually, I just remembered I’m a member of a gun forum with Pink Pistols members on it. I am going to ask about this there and see what they say. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/31 "2010-01-14T03:48:10Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I guess, but seriously, an MLK target is like something from South Park, a very broad over-the-top caricature of what a racist gun-nut is supposed to be like. I strongly lean towards a combination of “not getting the whole story” and “very poor choice of words.” As of now I’m still waiting for some more information about just what these targets that “commemorate individuals, achievements, and events of significance” are. I would _like_ to believe your theory that famous images are just sort of attached to the targets, but it’s just too ridiculous. I can maybe accept that someone in that club is just really, really stupid, and doesn’t see anything offensive about shooting MLK - but the disclaimer makes it sound like they do this a lot, and presumably _somebody_ would have gotten offended by one of the targets before now. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/32 "2010-01-14T03:51:41Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Either we are not getting the straight story here … Ha! Good one! eta **straight** story. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/33 "2010-01-14T03:54:00Z")
Well, I’m waiting to hear from the members of the other forum I mentioned. Hopefully we can have some clarity on this. Let me say something very emphatically, from someone on the inside of the “gun culture” : We are VERY aware that people will raise the specter of racism to try to smear us, so any gun group worth a goddamn will be EXTRA SUPER CAREFUL to not do anything even remotely racist. Take my word on this. Individual assholes with guns might do racist shit, but gun _advocacy_ groups know _damn_ well that the people against us are ready to jump on us for even the slightest accusation of racism, and gun advocacy groups do their damndest to be as racially inclusive as possible and never put out anything racially hurtful. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/34 "2010-01-14T03:56:19Z")
Well, then, somebody fucked up, badly, didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/35 "2010-01-14T03:57:32Z")
Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/36 "2010-01-14T04:44:23Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Just received word that the MLK target has been dropped from the shooting event. Thanks, apparently, to your excellent email back to the author of the original, which he quoted in full in his retraction. Since you are too modest to note this, herewith the retraction (actual email addresses are edited out, and I have broken the link since it just comes back to here). > [@](#): > > Message to Patch from Raoul B. Salem > You’re right. We have decided not to have the Martin Luther King Junior target for our January 2010 tournament. > > Thank you for your feedback. > > Raoul B. Salem > > From: Patch > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:17 PM > To: (Raoul B. Salem) > Subject: Re: [SacValleyPinkPistols] Pink Pistols Indoor Shoot 11 A.M To 1:00 P.M. Sunday, January 17th, 2010 > > As a member of the Sacramento Valley Pink Pistols, I must say, are you out of your fucking mind? You are seriously putting MLK on a target and taking it out to the firing range? Really? > > Please explain how that is supposed to present the Pink Pistols in a positive light. Better yet, bring your explanation here and defend this decision in public, given that the public is now talking about the Pink Pistols. > > http:// [Pitting either a)careless or b)intentionally ambigous or c)outright inflammatory email - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=547719) > > –Patch Thank you, **Patch**. I started to write a reply somewhat along those lines (although less emphatic) but the disclaimer threw me off and I abandoned the idea. I’m glad you had the courage of your outrage. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/37 "2010-01-14T05:03:34Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The range I go to doesn’t allow targets with images of people on them and many others are the same. What’s the rules on [zombies](http://www.zombietargets.net/)? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/38 "2010-01-14T05:08:02Z")
So, does anyone know any prior targets the Pink Pistols have used? I would love to see a list. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/39 "2010-01-14T05:15:39Z")
Like the company exec that thought it would be a good idea to bring the stripper to the board meeting, I think this was a matter that just wasn’t thought through. From the entire email, there were several targets that were to be shot, given their connection to January: MLK Jr, Elvis, and the Beatles’ Yellow Submarine album. I don’t believe it was intended to be a racial matter, but boy, it was a bad idea. Like, “let’s try this Ex-lax while we wait for the traffic jam to clear” bad. From the Op, I have to say this was: a) careless. The entire, original email text: * * * Message to San José Chapter of Pink Pistols from Raoul B. Salem Just a reminder about the Indoor Shoot of the San José Chapter of Pink Pistols from 11:00 A.M. to 1:00 P.M. on Sunday morning,January 17th, 2010 at the San José Municipal Firing Range, 1580 South 10th Street. If you have some time available on Sunday, please come to the range and shoot with us! We will have a shooting tournament with various themes! We’ll honor Martin Luther King Day (to be observed on Monday, January 18th, 2010) with a target portraying the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Junior. Doctor King was born on January 15th, 1929 in Atlanta, Georgia. King was the chief spokesman for nonviolent activism in the civil rights movement, which successfully protested racial discrimination in federal and state law. He was assassinated on April 4th, 1968 in Memphis, Tennessee. Martin Luther King Day was first observed in 1986. Elvis Presley was born on January 8th, 1935 in Tupelo, Mississippi. He was a popular, successful, and influential musician and actor. His music is still very popular today, and is called the King of Rock and Roll, or “The King”, by many of his admirers. Elvis Presley died on August 16th, 1977 at age 42 years in Memphis, Tennessee. We’ll commemorate the birthday of Elvis Presley with a target portraying this man who is acknowledged to be one of the most important figures of 20th-century popular culture. The phonograph record album entitled Yellow Submarine, by the popular band The Beatles, was released in January of 1969. We commemorate the release of this album with a target portraying the Yellow Submarine, based on the album jacket artwork. The choices of the themes for the targets of the shooting tournaments conducted by the San José Chapter of Pink Pistols at the San José Municipal Firing Range is intended to commemorate individuals, achievements, and events of significance, and never to insult, denigrate, or express disdain, disapproval, or dislike of any individual, group, organization, religion, creed, concept, or event. These choices are made by individuals associated with the San José Chapter of Pink Pistols, and not by the Recreation and Parks Department of the City of San José, or by the Santa Clara Valley Rifle Club (which operates the San José Municipal Firing Range as a contractor to the Recreation and Parks Department of the City of San José). We’ll shoot rapid fire (five shots in ten seconds) first, timed fire (five shots in twenty seconds) second, and slow fire (five shots in five minutes) last. The target for the rapid fire stage will have the largest figure(s), and the target for the slow fire stage will have the smallest figure(s). One point per hit. If the shot hole touches any part of the figure at all, it’s a hit.We’ll come to an agreement about the shooting distance when we meet. We’ll separate the smallbore pistol shooters and the center fire pistol shooters into two groups competing separately. Usually, however, all of the tournament participants shoot center fire pistols. Aside from the multiple-theme shooting tournament, the activity will include National Rifle Association of America Pistol Qualification Shooting (e.g., for Pro-Marksman and Marksman Ratings) on the B-2 and B-3 targets at a distance of 50 feet, informal and unstructured shooting, plus socializing, with some shooting instruction and coaching available. The entire range is reserved for our group only! The cost to the chapter is $40.00 for two hours of range time, plus $2.50 per shooter. Your donations will be very greatly appreciated! Please remember to sign the San José Municipal Firing Range Sign-In Sheet when you first arrive at the range. Eye and ear protection are required. If you have prescription spectacles with lenses of average size or larger, purchased in California, then these will qualify as eye protection. Some eye protection is available at the range, but the lenses may be scratched. Some ear protection will be available at the range, also. Nicky will be providing some handguns and cartridges. It would be very nice if you would reimburse Nicky for the cost of the cartridges that you shoot. No food or beverages will be permitted inside the range while shooting is in progress. You will be required to wash your hands before leaving the range or before handling food or beverages. The range belongs to the Recreation and Parks Department of the City of San José, and is operated by the Santa Clara Valley Rifle Club under contract to the City of San José, with volunteer members of the club serving as Range Safety Officers. Here are the three basic rules of gun safety. 1. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. If you are behind the firing line, this means the gun should be pointed upward, with the muzzle above the level of your head. If you are on the firing line, the gun should be pointed toward your target. 2. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are aiming the gun at your target and are in the act of firing the shot. 3. Keep the action open and the gun unloaded if you are not actually shooting. Loaded guns are only permitted on the firing line. Any magazines not actually in the gun, and speed loaders, are not required to be unloaded within the shooting range. Information about the San José Municipal Firing Range (including a YAHOO map) may be found at the following URL. [http://www.scvrc.com/10th\_street.htm](http://www.scvrc.com/10th_street.htm) I hope that you will accept our invitation to come to the San José Municipal Firing Range to participate in this shooting and social activity, and that you will find it to be fun and worthwhile. Very truly yours, Raoul Raoul B. Salem Designated Range Safety Bitch for San José Chapter of Pink Pistols National Rifle Association of America Certified Chief Range Safety Officer Member of Santa Clara Valley Rifle Club ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847/40 "2010-01-14T05:17:12Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > What’s the rules on [zombies](http://www.zombietargets.net/)? Most ranges I visit don’t allow any targets but the ones they sell. Obviously, we have to get these in their catalogs. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-either-a-careless-or-b-intentionally-ambigous-or-c-outright-inflammatory-email/524847.md?page=3)