# Pitting Fundie Pharmacists Who Won't Fill Birth-Control Prescriptions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620 "2005-03-28T16:46:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/61 "2005-03-29T00:14:50Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > One pharmacist forced to support one woman through pregnancy and one child for the next eighteen years, will do wonders towards working change. That’s perfect. Would it work? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/62 "2005-03-29T00:18:50Z")
Daggone it, posted too soon. > [@Apos](#): > > While there is some recourse in the “professional standards” area, it makes more uncomfortable than the problem it is solving. Most libertarians of my acquaintance have an easier solution: Make the med OTC. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/63 "2005-03-29T00:37:28Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > As something of a Libertarian, I find it hard to think of a good reason why pharmacists should be forced to do something they think is wrong, however stupid I find that view. Then again, I also fully support the ability of a business to fire such a person, or customers to boycott said establishment if they don’t. While there is some recourse in the “professional standards” area, it makes more uncomfortable than the problem it is solving. As someone who wanted to become a LEO, and who also views some statutes as painfully stupid, I had a choice to make-either leave my personal judgements at home, or pursue another line of work. As it happened, I never achieved my goal, but IMHO the same principle as expressed by the OP applies: do your job or find another career. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/64 "2005-03-29T00:42:42Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > This has been my line of thought, too. Does any church or established religion have a specific stance on the use of Viagra? Because it seems they should. After all, if it’s god’s will that women not mess with their reproductive organs (i.e., birth control pills and other contraception), shouldn’t it also be the same for men? Or is it that people are supposed to procreate whatever it takes? A lot of pharmacists who deny the pill to patrons do so because they believe it is murder (i.e. contraception is abortion, abortion is murder) without giving thought to the moral implications (sex outside of marriage, etc). Thusly they believe Viagra is “o.k.” ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/65 "2005-03-29T00:48:05Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Actually, there’s a very simple solution available to the woman whose pharmacist holds her “morning after” pill prescription hostage: sue him for paternity. If she becomes pregnant, it is as a direct result of an affirmative act on his part, admittedly not the usual one causing pregnancy, but nonetheless directly as the result of his act. One pharmacist forced to support one woman through pregnancy and one child for the next eighteen years, will do wonders towards working change. The only problem with that tack **Poly** is that one would also need to sue the manufacturers of the libations consumed by the lass causing her to reduce her inhibitions, the manufacturers of the clothing she wore which caused her to be deemed “hot” by the male contributor to the issue, owner(s) of establishment(s) which were visited by defendant and plaintiff prior to “the act” for being contributory in regard to “putting them in the mood”, and anyone else interested in joining the litigation bandwagon. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/66 "2005-03-29T01:28:00Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > The only problem with that tack **Poly** is that one would also need to sue the manufacturers of the libations consumed by the lass causing her to reduce her inhibitions, the manufacturers of the clothing she wore which caused her to be deemed “hot” by the male contributor to the issue, owner(s) of establishment(s) which were visited by defendant and plaintiff prior to “the act” for being contributory in regard to “putting them in the mood”, and anyone else interested in joining the litigation bandwagon. 😉 Certainly they are contributing factors, accessories to the tort if you will, as of course was the male who “bestowed his seed upon her,” to use the Biblical euphemism. But none of them except the “sower of seed” performed direct acts that led to her becoming pregnant. The pharmacist who impounds her morning-after pill prescription did, like him, perform a direct act that led to her becoming pregnant. Hence my logic. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/67 "2005-03-29T02:58:48Z")
Check your local and state laws. Just a few minutes ago, a psychologist friend and I were talking about this and she said that (at least here in California) these pharmacists are breaking the law if they do this. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/68 "2005-03-29T03:18:22Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > This is just so wrong. Would these people also agree that a librarian has the right to withold books from use because he/she objects morally to their content? Sure. What on earth makes you think they wouldn’t?] > [@Neurotik](#): > > Too bad your line of thought is idiotic and irrelevent. The church doesn’t have a stance on viagra the same way they don’t have a stance on fertility treatments. The objection isn’t to women messing with their reproductive organs, the objection is to artifically preventing the creation of life. > [@Neurotik](#): > > The church has no problem with natural means of birth control. Define “messing with”. Define “artificial”. Define “natural”. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/69 "2005-03-29T03:33:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Most libertarians of my acquaintance have an easier solution: Make the med OTC. That seems like a good move, though frankly there are too many potential health problems with the pill that make doctors an important part of using it. > [@danceswithcats](#): > > As someone who wanted to become a LEO, and who also views some statutes as painfully stupid, I had a choice to make-either leave my personal judgements at home, or pursue another line of work. As it happened, I never achieved my goal, but IMHO the same principle as expressed by the OP applies: do your job or find another career. The only people who get to decide what your job is are your employers. If there are employers who are willing to support such a career, then that seems like the end of the story. If having access to birth control is a right, then it should fall upon those that think so to provide it, not this or that pharmacy. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/70 "2005-03-29T03:43:58Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > That seems like a good move, though frankly there are too many potential health problems with the pill that make doctors an important part of using it. Which part of libertarian philosophy justifies the government protecting me from myself? ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/71 "2005-03-29T03:53:36Z")
Gee, do we really not have a pharmacist here who could check in on this subject? Pharmacists are licensed by the state, and as such are subject to having complaints made against their licenses, as are many professionals. Even by the general public. There’s a procedure. Now, what if it wasn’t birth control? My brother is a pharmacist. He’s agin’ the use of Ritalin for kids. Thinks it’s a bad idea, can do permanent harm both physical and psychological, and is (or at least was at one time) overprescribed. BUT . . . in some cases it does help. So, even though he thought it was more likely than not a Bad Idea, he never refused to fill a prescription. On penalty of loss of his license, and because each individual case could be a case where the drug actually helped. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/72 "2005-03-29T04:11:54Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Unless you live in Buttfuck, pop. 15, and you have no car. In that case you’re just screwed. Your prescription could be called in to Walgreens, who will ship it anywhere in the country for you. All you need is a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/73 "2005-03-29T06:37:28Z")
Lefty blogger extraordinaire [Atrios](http://atrios.blogspot.com) has asked people to send him the name of pharmacists or pharmacies who refuse to give out birth control due to moral objections so he can create the [Wall of Wankers](http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_03_27_atrios_archive.html#111198452908149912). I would do everything I could to steer my patients away from these pharmacists. ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/74 "2005-03-29T08:18:00Z")
Someone said that the Catholic Church says that sex is immoral unless there is a possibility of procreation. So… suppose someone is completely sterile, with absolutely no chance or ever conceiving (they were born without ovaries or something like that.) So the Catholic Church would say it was immoral for this person to EVER have sex, even with their spouse? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/75 "2005-03-29T09:00:02Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Which part of libertarian philosophy justifies the government protecting me from myself? No part. I’m not a die-hard, everything-must-be libertarian. I don’t really have a feeling on the principle whether or not the pill should be over-the-counter, but I do think it’s pretty stupid to use any powerful and potentially dangerous medication without getting a workup from a doctor first. If they made all medications over the counter, I wouldn’t have any real principled objection to it. But I definately would call stupid anyone who didn’t consult a doctor before taking something that could potentially cause a stroke. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/76 "2005-03-29T09:51:21Z")
I think that if you’re going to refuse to fill out certain prescriptions, you should notify your local medical practitioners, who can send patients to a pharmacy that will fill out their prescriptions. It’s not really an issue if an employee who works with others refuses to fill out a prescription, as someone else in the shop will. It IS an issue if the boss refuses to stock certain medications, or it’s a one-man shop in a one pharmacy town. In that case, I’d like a big red “We don’t sell X, Y, Z” sign and I’d vote with my feet. Doctors BTW don’t have to provide prescriptions for medications, nor do they have to perform procedures that they find ethically questionable. However, they have to give a referral to someone who will or face serious consequences. I know several devout Catholic GPs in Ireland who have almost no female patients under 70 on their patients lists. Word gets out and people choose a different doctor. I would imagine they’d start choosing different pharmacists too. Birth control pills are NOT something I’d want to make OTC. Emergency Contraception (it’s got a window of 72 hours, so Morning After Pill is a misnomer) on the other hand should be available OTC. Possibly, with the caveat that 3 or more emergency contraceptive uses in a year requires a referral to a free reproductive health clinic, to discuss how best to avoid a 4th. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/77 "2005-03-29T13:40:14Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > I think that if you’re going to refuse to fill out certain prescriptions, you should notify your local medical practitioners, who can send patients to a pharmacy that will fill out their prescriptions. > > It’s not really an issue if an employee who works with others refuses to fill out a prescription, as someone else in the shop will. It IS an issue if the boss refuses to stock certain medications, or it’s a one-man shop in a one pharmacy town. In that case, I’d like a big red “We don’t sell X, Y, Z” sign and I’d vote with my feet. > > Doctors BTW don’t have to provide prescriptions for medications, nor do they have to perform procedures that they find ethically questionable. However, they have to give a referral to someone who will or face serious consequences. > > I know several devout Catholic GPs in Ireland who have almost no female patients under 70 on their patients lists. Word gets out and people choose a different doctor. > > I would imagine they’d start choosing different pharmacists too. > > Birth control pills are NOT something I’d want to make OTC. Emergency Contraception (it’s got a window of 72 hours, so Morning After Pill is a misnomer) on the other hand should be available OTC. Possibly, with the caveat that 3 or more emergency contraceptive uses in a year requires a referral to a free reproductive health clinic, to discuss how best to avoid a 4th. It’s not just pharmacists: [It’s gynecologists.](http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-35-4130-1,00.html) These are all pro-life wingnuts who keep redefining life further and further back. Soon it’ll be unfertilized eggs and sperm. Bottom line is, if they’re not doing the job, they need to be sued out of existance for promising to do a job they’re not doing. None of these guys is hanging out big banners that say, “Attention, sluts! Go get your baby-killing poison elsewhere!” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/78 "2005-03-29T13:54:16Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > Someone said that the Catholic Church says that sex is immoral unless there is a possibility of procreation. So… suppose someone is completely sterile, with absolutely no chance or ever conceiving (they were born without ovaries or something like that.) So the Catholic Church would say it was immoral for this person to EVER have sex, even with their spouse? Given the Biblical examples of Sarah and Elizabeth, the Church considers natural sterility to be no impediment to the _possibility_ of conception if God so wills it. The actual official position is not that each act of sexual intercourse must allow the possibility of procreation, but that each act must be OPEN to conception. This allows, for example, oral sex as foreplay, but not the end of the act. Basically, a vaginal ejaculation must occur (coitus interruptus has never been an ACCEPTED method of Catholic birth control), and that vaginal ejaculation is acceptable as being “open to conception”. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/79 "2005-03-29T13:55:45Z")
And on re-reading my post above, I have to admit that I have no idea what the Church’s position on sex acts with women who’ve had hysterectomies (and therefore are not open to conception) is. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/80 "2005-03-29T13:59:04Z")
**MinniePurl** said: > [@](#): > > So the Catholic Church would say it was immoral for this person to EVER have sex, even with their spouse? No, no, no, and no. The Church does not say that ‘natural’ infertility (like after menopause, after hysterectomy for cancer, due to genetic condition, etc.) means that a person should not have sex. The policy of the Church is that Catholics should not actively try to prevent conception as a result of intercourse. This encompasses surgical sterilization, condoms, IUDs, hormonal manipulation, and other methods. “Natural family planning”, which is endorsed by the Church, involves avoiding intercourse during those times that a woman is most likely to become pregnant. The Church does not say that sex is ‘only’ for procreation, but it does feel that the reproductive aspect of sex should not be separated from the ‘recreational’ aspect. The use of contraceptives is seen as a minor act of defiance against the will of God, as it were. Sexual intercourse does not _require_ fertility, but should not include actions to _thwart_ fertility. Now, back to the pharmacists - I saw Karen Brauer, president of [Pharmacists for Life International](http://www.pfli.org) on CNN this AM. She tried to make the case that OCPs are risky drugs given to women that are not sick and that it is the pharmacist’s moral and legal obligation to step in to preserve the life and health of their patients. And oh, yeah, they prevent conception. At any rate, the website is interesting, in a bizarro-world kind of way. The ‘Model Pharmacist’s Conscience Clause’ is interesting in that it proposes that > [@](#): > > The rights of conscience of any person being a duly licensed pharmacist, who shall object on personal, ethical, moral or religious grounds to the performance of any act in the normal course of professional performance or dispensing, shall be respected. > > Further, such a refusal to perform any act or the omission of any act based on such a claim of conscience, shall not form the basis for any claim for damages or any recriminatory or discriminatory action against such a person. > > Any such person making such a claim of conscience, or who states a willingness or intention to make such a claim of conscience, shall not be denied employment, or discriminated against in any manner related to employment because of such a claim of conscience. So, not only should it be okay to refuse to dispense OCPs, they can refuse to fill any prescription for anyone for any reason with no repercussions! No more filling those AZT scrips for the filthy homos! No more Viagara for the non-Whites! Glory hallelujah! And you should still have to hire me even though I’m a racist homophobe, cause I’m sincere in my beliefs! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620.md?page=5)