# Pitting Fundie Pharmacists Who Won't Fill Birth-Control Prescriptions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620 "2005-03-28T16:46:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/81 "2005-03-29T14:10:14Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Your prescription could be called in to Walgreens, who will ship it anywhere in the country for you. All you need is a credit card. Will they ship within the 72 hours needed for emergency contraception to be effective, minus the time taken to see the doctor, get the prescription, go to the pharmacy and get shot down by the pro-life pharmacist? If not, the woman needing it is still screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/82 "2005-03-29T14:11:43Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Given the Biblical examples of Sarah and Elizabeth, the Church considers natural sterility to be no impediment to the _possibility_ of conception if God so wills it. The actual official position is not that each act of sexual intercourse must allow the possibility of procreation, but that each act must be OPEN to conception. This allows, for example, oral sex as foreplay, but not the end of the act. Basically, a vaginal ejaculation must occur (coitus interruptus has never been an ACCEPTED method of Catholic birth control), and that vaginal ejaculation is acceptable as being “open to conception”. This is really not meant to be snarky, but wouldn’t the above position open the CC to a charge of having little-to-no faith in their deity? If a completely infertile woman winds up with kids because God wills it, why not one who is artificially infertile because God wills it? Or put it another way. If God is omnipotent then what difference does it make whether you take the pills or not? I’m sure there is some kind of “out” that the theologians have considered but I must admit it doesn’t occur to me right now. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/83 "2005-03-29T14:14:17Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > This is really not meant to be snarky, but wouldn’t the above position open the CC to a charge of having little-to-no faith in their deity? If a completely infertile woman winds up with kids because God wills it, why not one who is artificially infertile because God wills it? > Or put it another way. If God is omnipotent then what difference does it make whether you take the pills or not? > > I’m sure there is some kind of “out” that the theologians have considered but I must admit it doesn’t occur to me right now. > > Regards > > Testy As **brossa** implied above, the Church doesn’t concern itself so much with the birth control itself as it does the hubris of trying to thwart God’s will. It’s not the contraception that’s inherently sinful, it’s the intention behind it. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/84 "2005-03-29T14:15:26Z")
> [@margin](#): > > These are all pro-life wingnuts who keep redefining life further and further back. Soon it’ll be unfertilized eggs and sperm. That is why male masturbation is not allowed, it wastes chances… Cue Pythons, “Every Sperm is Sacred.” ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/85 "2005-03-29T14:17:34Z")
Religious discrimination doesn’t apply if the limitations of the religious belief prevent you from doing the job, and there’s no reasonable accommodation that can be made. If Honey-Baked Ham needs some extra help for Saturday mornings, it isn’t religious discrimination if they decline to hire an Orthodox Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/86 "2005-03-29T14:21:24Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > As **brossa** implied above, the Church doesn’t concern itself so much with the birth control itself as it does the hubris of trying to thwart God’s will. It’s not the contraception that’s inherently sinful, it’s the intention behind it. I see. Thank you for that. So, it’s the _attempt_ that’s evil. It would seem that the same logic could be applied to many, many situations. For example, what about being born into extreme poverty? Would attempts to change that situation be equally evil? Or does the attempt to thwart God’s will only count when it is going to be almost 100% successful? Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/87 "2005-03-29T14:22:34Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Religious discrimination doesn’t apply if the limitations of the religious belief prevent you from doing the job, and there’s no reasonable accommodation that can be made. If Honey-Baked Ham needs some extra help for Saturday mornings, it isn’t religious discrimination if they decline to hire an Orthodox Jew. Sorry, Doc, but perhaps I am being obtuse. If the orthodox Jew applies with Honey-Baked ham for the Shabbat gig, he has no compulsion to state his religious beliefs on any application. If he is willing to do the job, how can you not hire him. I see this as a false analogy. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/88 "2005-03-29T14:40:51Z")
> [@brownie55](#): > > Sorry, Doc, but perhaps I am being obtuse. If the orthodox Jew applies with Honey-Baked ham for the Shabbat gig, he has no compulsion to state his religious beliefs on any application. **If he is willing to do the job** , how can you not hire him. I see this as a false analogy. Key words bolded. If you hired him, and he then said, “Oh, by the way, I can’t touch pork, and I can’t work on Saturday,” then it isn’t religious discrimination to fire him. Similarly, if your newly-hired pharmacist said, “Oh, by the way, I refuse to fill any prescriptions for birth control,” you’re first obligated to try to make accommodations. If you can’t, though–say, she’s your only pharmacist–then it’s OK to replace her with someone who can actually do the job. This is my understanding, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![melondeca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@melondeca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melondeca)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/89 "2005-03-29T14:47:56Z")
I don’t really have anything intelligent or witty to add to this discussion. I only came in here to say one thing…FUCK THESE ASSHOLES. I read those articles and I am so pissed that I can’t even think straight. Who the fuck do these pharmacists and doctors think they are?! If I ever were to encounter some pretentious, uppity moral bastard such as the ones mentioned, people would be talking about me for weeks. Instead of the headlines reading, “Melondeca Goes Postal” they will read “Melondeca Goes Pharmaceutical”. “Tragedy struck a small West Virginia town today when Melondeca, a 26 year old female, jumped the pharmacy counter, ripped the arms from the pharmacist and beat him to death with them, all while stuffing boxes of contraceptives in unmentionable orfices.” Actually, it would be a shame to waste all those USEFUL contraceptives. In closing, as Jay once said," Fuck them. Fuck them in their stupid asses." :mad: ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/90 "2005-03-29T15:05:15Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Key words bolded. If you hired him, and he then said, “Oh, by the way, I can’t touch pork, and I can’t work on Saturday,” then it isn’t religious discrimination to fire him. I agree with that 100%. One should never take a job one is unwilling to do. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/91 "2005-03-29T15:05:37Z")
From **Testy** – > [@](#): > > For example, what about being born into extreme poverty? Would attempts to change that situation be equally evil? Or does the attempt to thwart God’s will only count when it is going to be almost 100% successful? I’m afraid that I don’t see what you mean by this. As **jayjay** clarified for me, it is the hubris that is the issue. Yes, if God wanted to intervene, he could undo every vasectomy or teleport sperm across a condom or whatever (see Sarah, Mary, et al). It’s an issue of whether you are willing to surrender some parts of your life up to God or whether you want all of the control for yourself. Not that I agree with all of this, necessarily, but it is a well-thought out and internally consistent argument, which develops from a larger and also internally consistent Church policy regarding the sanctity of life. Do folks really think that a Jesuit hearing the “well, if God wanted, he could just bust the rubber” argument would just throw up his hands and leave the Church, utterly devestated by the semantic power of the argument? What pisses me off so much is not \*just \*the pharmacists’ position on birth control, but that they also think that they should be able to refuse ANY medication, counselling, etc. for ANY reason with no repurcussions! ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/92 "2005-03-29T15:31:50Z")
> [@brossa](#): > > I’m afraid that I don’t see what you mean by this. > > As **jayjay** clarified for me, it is the hubris that is the issue. Yes, if God wanted to intervene, he could undo every vasectomy or teleport sperm across a condom or whatever (see Sarah, Mary, et al). It’s an issue of whether you are willing to surrender some parts of your life up to God or whether you want all of the control for yourself. > > \ Thank you. Possibly I’m misunderstanding. Let me see if I have this clear. Birth control is sinful because it attempts to control the _probable_ outcome of an act (sex) which should be left in God’s hands. This implies that you do not wish to allow God to control this but desire to control it yourself and there lies the sin. In the case of my example of being born into extreme poverty, the normal outcome of that situation would be that you _stay_ impoverished until you die. There are exceptions though. People who have worked and slaved and educated themselves out of that situation. Now, could these examples also be considered “sinful” based on the same logic used to condemn BC? These exceptional people, through hard work and intelligence, have changed the natural outcome of their situation on their own rather than allowing God to fix it or not at His pleasure. So, have I stretched the logic too far? It seems that in either case, a person is unwilling to allow God to control a particular aspect of his life, regardless of whether it was the number of offspring or the amount of money he controlled. As an OBTW, I’m all in favor of finding out what pharmacys are doing this and boycotting them out of existance. Thanks Testy ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/93 "2005-03-29T16:13:30Z")
> [@melondeca](#): > > I don’t really have anything intelligent or witty to add to this discussion. I only came in here to say one thing…FUCK THESE ASSHOLES. I read those articles and I am so pissed that I can’t even think straight. Who the fuck do these pharmacists and doctors think they are?! > > If I ever were to encounter some pretentious, uppity moral bastard such as the ones mentioned, people would be talking about me for weeks. Instead of the headlines reading, “Melondeca Goes Postal” they will read “Melondeca Goes Pharmaceutical”. > > “Tragedy struck a small West Virginia town today when Melondeca, a 26 year old female, jumped the pharmacy counter, ripped the arms from the pharmacist and beat him to death with them, all while stuffing boxes of contraceptives in unmentionable orfices.” > > Actually, it would be a shame to waste all those USEFUL contraceptives. In closing, as Jay once said," Fuck them. Fuck them in their stupid asses." :mad: I was waiting for somebody to post in some way to remind me this is the pit. The entire thread has been far too rational. And I’ll add to this anger myself: Hey, fucktards. You don’t want to do your job of providing prescriptions for which the woman has her own reasons that might be perfectly acceptable (and yes, there are virgins, widows, and just women with extremely long dry spells who also use birth control for other means) that are personal enough that they shouldn’t have to be shared with your moral uppity ass? Fuck all and get a new goddamned job. Pharmacy is about providing the patients with the prescriptions their doctor provides. You are a middle man, a dispensary whose sole purpose is to act out the will of the patient and the doctor for the patient’s medical need. If that need is birth control, and you don’t believe that makes the woman a baby-killing slut, tough shit. If that need is ADHD drugs, and you hate the effects of pill-popping personality regulation, tough shit. If that need is AZT, and you hate those filthy sodomites and everybody stupid enough to get their disease, tough FUCKING shit. Dispense the medicine which the patient and doctor have agreed is correct, whether it truly is or not, and bitch about it on your lunch break. If you don’t like doing so, quit. Fucking quit. Get off your goddamned high horse and accept that there are others who do not subscribe to your ass-backwards contraception-is-murder belief, or that there are those who do share it but need the medication for other purposes. You are God no more than these women you’re denying medical assistance. If you keep this up, and your heaven/hell afterlife is true, may you end up in hell where power drills doused in lighter fluid sodomize you for all eternity. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/94 "2005-03-29T16:17:58Z")
Isn’t it odd how the 100% sacred and inviolable right of every person to make up his or her own mind about abortion suddenly gets lots less sacred the instant someone decides anything except “abortion is always a swell idea”? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/95 "2005-03-29T16:23:19Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > As something of a Libertarian, I find it hard to think of a good reason why pharmacists should be forced to do something they think is wrong, however stupid I find that view. The fact that their intransigience could cause injury to a person who is incapable of going to another pharmacy, say in a one-pharmacy town, doesn’t sway you? A pharmacists moral bullshit is more worthy of protection than the health of the innocent person they are victimizing? Would you also support EMT ambulances that refuse to pick up black folks, Jews or gays? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/96 "2005-03-29T16:24:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Isn’t it odd how the 100% sacred and inviolable right of every person to make up his or her own mind about abortion suddenly gets lots less sacred the instant someone decides anything except “abortion is always a swell idea”? > > Regards, > Shodan Bravo, Shodan, for missing the point by a mile yet again. You don’t have to have abortions. You don’t have to even cause them. But when women are trying to protect themselves from needing to have an abortion and some self-righteous prick makes it impossible for them to protect themselves, then the issue becomes not abortion but hypocrisy. Oh, I know. Now we can have the debate about how to prevent abortion by leg crossing or something. Except not. I will say this for you, Shodan. Your schtick never changes. Oh, wait, that’s part of the problem. It NEVER changes. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/97 "2005-03-29T16:36:36Z")
What happens when your doctor won’t prescribe birth control, and your options of seeing another physician are limited because your insurance only covers certain doctors? Oooooh…this is pissing me off! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/98 "2005-03-29T16:45:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Isn’t it odd how the 100% sacred and inviolable right of every person to make up his or her own mind about abortion suddenly gets lots less sacred the instant someone decides anything except “abortion is always a swell idea”? > > Regards, > Shodan Fuck you. This isn’t about someone making up his or her mind on abortion. Hell, this isn’t even about abortion, but birth control! And whatever you believe, you have NO RIGHT to force your decision on others. Got that? If you don’t like abortions, fine-don’t have one. If you don’t believe in birth control, don’t use it. But if you take a job where you KNOW you will be required to dispense birth control pills, condoms, etc, and you still refuse to sell them to people, then you are an ASSHOLE who deserves to be fired. Because it’s not about you-it’s about your patients and customers. And if you have a problem with that, then that’s just too goddamned bad! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/99 "2005-03-29T16:49:47Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Bravo, Shodan, for missing the point by a mile yet again. No, I got the point just fine. The point is that everyone should be free to make up their own mind about abortion, except if they decide against it. > [@margin](#): > > You don’t have to have abortions. You don’t have to even cause them. Here’s the part where you contradict yourself. If I am a pharmacist, you claim that I **do** have to cause abortions whenever I am requested to do so. So I don’t really have much right to choose, do I? I can choose to assist in performing abortions, that’s fine. But I cannot refuse to do so. A choice with no opportunity to say no isn’t really a choice, wouldn’t you agree? It would be equivalent to some theoretical company saying, “Our health plan covers voluntary abortion, so feel free to get one if you want it. If you do, be aware that our policy will be to fire you”. Perfect freedom of choice, right? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620/100 "2005-03-29T16:51:58Z")
It. Is. Not. About. Fucking. Abortion. You. Moronic. Turd. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-fundie-pharmacists-who-wont-fill-birth-control-prescriptions/296620.md?page=6)