# Pitting Honeybadger **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183 "2018-03-07T15:40:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/701 "2023-11-21T14:56:03Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I was hoping to simply gloss over this entire biological process if I could at least establish there was a possibility here Umm, shit for brains? How the fuck do you think you can establish there is a possibility _and_ gloss over the entire biological process AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME??? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/702 "2023-11-21T14:56:15Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Why is it outlandish to think these hormones can affect the behavior of sperm and play a part in the selection process? Because of how sperm works, like at the basic middle school sex ed level. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/703 "2023-11-21T15:01:18Z")
Is your theory that some sperm, depending on their content (in terms of genes) affect its ability to reach and fertilize an egg? Or that hormone levels affect the genes found in sperm produced? Either of these would be a reasonable hypothesis that could be tested. But the implications depend on the underlying biological process, so that cannot just be “glossed over”. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/704 "2023-11-21T15:05:16Z")
Nope, > [@Can behavior affect our DNA](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/8): > > My question was very specifically related to sperm responding differently to the whatever chemical were present in our spinal fluid shortly before ejaculation. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/705 "2023-11-21T15:08:44Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Is your theory that some sperm, depending on their content (in terms of genes) affect its ability to reach and fertilize an egg? Yes, I suspect that neuro chemicals affect the sperms behavior enough to influence which sperm fertilize the egg. > [@Babale](#): > > Either of these would be a reasonable hypothesis that could be tested. But the implications depend on the underlying biological process, so that cannot just be “glossed over”. Only glossing over it at the early stages of a discussion, I would become purely a spectator beyond that point. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/706 "2023-11-21T15:13:12Z")
> [@Can behavior affect our DNA](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/8): > > My question was very specifically related to sperm responding differently to the whatever chemical were present in our spinal fluid shortly before ejaculation I have modified my position here somewhat since I posted that. The hormones seem to play a part in selection in a few areas. including the actual fertilization process. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/707 "2023-11-21T15:15:52Z")
The mechanism by which sperm passes on traits is through the genes present in the sperm. Sperm is a gamete so it only has one of each pair of genes. Hormones and chemicals cannot change the genes which a sperm carries. They could _break_ some of the genes by causing damage to the sperm’s DNA, which would cause birth defects or an inviable embryo, but I don’t think that’s what you were asking. If the chemicals disproportionately damaged sperm carrying one set of genes, or if as I said earlier different sperm performed differently at the task of reaching the egg with the difference correlating to carried genes, then perhaps what you propose could be possible. But again, we cannot gloss over the mechanism because that determines what actual effects are possible. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/708 "2023-11-21T15:18:09Z")
> [@Can behavior affect our DNA](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/8): > > > [@Can behavior affect our DNA](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/8): > > > > My question was very specifically related to sperm responding differently to the whatever chemical were present in our spinal fluid shortly before ejaculation > > I have modified my position here somewhat since I posted that. The hormones seem to play a part in selection in a few areas. including the actual fertilization process. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > My basic contention was **and still is that seminal fluid and the production of sperm contain many of the same hormones and chemicals found in the spinal fluid.** Sure ya have! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/709 "2023-11-21T15:21:52Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I was simply trying to establish a link between behavior, environment and traits we pass on. Ok. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Why is it outlandish to think these hormones can affect the behavior of sperm and play a part in the selection process? It’s outlandish because the traits (like blue vs brown eyes) we pass on are small clumps of DNA. With the possible exception of gender (as it involves an entire chromosome) no individual trait has the ability to change the behavior of a sperm cell, and our hormones do not impact which traits are present within individual sperm cells. It’s also outlandish because “the selection process” doesn’t happen at the sperm/egg level, there is no selection process that picks out an individual sperm cell for the task, it’s basically random, or at least it’s not controlled by an outside factor. The closest thing to a selection process is that you may have fertilization happen when the sperm present are more likely to have X chromosomes than Y chromosomes, or vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/710 "2023-11-21T15:25:23Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > With the possible exception of gender (as it involves an entire chromosome) no individual trait has the ability to change the behavior of a sperm cell, and our hormones do not impact which traits are present within individual sperm cells. I was going to bring up gender but apparently [Recent studies find no evidence for even gender having an impact.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440662/#:~:text=Neither%20mature%20sperm%20nor%20their,swim%20faster%20than%20X%20sperm.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/711 "2023-11-21T15:35:52Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The level at which I was attempting to approach this does not require highly detailed knowledge of biochemistry. I think you’re proving why that isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/712 "2023-11-21T15:37:05Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I think you’re proving why that isn’t true No, he’s correct. Advanced biochemistry isn’t required, only middle school health class level understanding. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/713 "2023-11-21T15:49:03Z")
I’m reasonably certain that you’re feeding the troll here folks. He’s loving it, which is why he keeps showing up to stir. Not that most of us can stop the tendency, just a reminder. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/714 "2023-11-21T15:50:51Z")
You’re sooo generous! > [@Can behavior affect our DNA](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/16): > > our thinking does affect the chemical makeup in our spinal fluids. Semen does not cross the brain blood barrier until it is reabsorbed. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/715 "2023-11-21T15:52:26Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I was going to bring up gender but apparently [Recent studies find no evidence for even gender having an impact.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440662/#:~:text=Neither%20mature%20sperm%20nor%20their,swim%20faster%20than%20X%20sperm.) Cool! Thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/716 "2023-11-21T15:55:27Z")
I have been lurking in this thread but not responding. So I ask the question, and this will be the only time I participate, WHY do you respond to the “guest of honor” and give them the attention they seem so desperate for? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/717 "2023-11-21T16:00:38Z")
The pearl divers of Ama Japan would be an interesting thing to look at on this topic. Could they really have evolved in the amount of time given on just pure genetics? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/718 "2023-11-21T16:03:11Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > WHY do you respond to the “guest of honor” and give them the attention they seem so desperate for? Primary engagement is to ask questions that show the “guest(s) of honor” are not actually interested in an honest discussion. Secondary engagement is to give them the attention they desire since they seemingly always want even more attention than they’re getting. Force feeding them puts them on ‘tilt’ and the ban hammer falls shortly after. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/719 "2023-11-21T16:04:26Z")
I present Exibit A your honor, > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The pearl divers of Ama Japan would be an interesting thing to look at on this topic. Could they really have evolved in the amount of time given on just pure genetics? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/720 "2023-11-21T16:06:22Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > You’re sooo generous! Thanks, I didn’t realize just how infantile and disconnected from reality the OP’s posts were. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Cool! Thanks for that. On the other hand, the rest of us sometimes have an interesting conversation as a result. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183.md?page=37)