# Pitting Honeybadger **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183 "2018-03-07T15:40:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/841 "2024-02-18T23:31:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Well, behaviour can’t change your genes, but it can change the way in which they are expressed. Jesus, this is tiresome. People say this (you’re not the first) as though it’s some kind of surprising new discovery. It is fucking obvious that gene expression constantly changes in response to the body’s needs. Do you imagine that all genes would be constantly switched on at the same level of expression producing exactly the same quantity of whatever it is they make? That’s idiotic. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Epigenetics is a thing, and describes how some learned behaviours seem to be heritable. 99% of the field of epigenetics concerns mechanisms that routinely modulate gene expression in somatic (non-germline) cells, and any “inheritance” that we’re talking about there concerns **cell differentiation** , the passage of epigenetic modifications down differentiated lineages of somatic cells. Liver cell mitosis producing more liver cells. Not anything heritable in the evolutionary sense into the next generation. There is a much narrower subfield called **transgenerational epigenetic inheritance** , and only this part concerns the transmission of epigenetic modifications via germline cells into the next generation. Although this is a real phenomenon, it’s **importance** has been massively overhyped. Virtually all epigenetic modifications are wiped in germ cells. There is no evidence that inherited epigenetic modifications can persist for more than a few generations (and rarely more than one), and no evidence that is has any significance in evolution. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It seems that Honeybadger’s error was to say that it causes your genes to change. But directionally he’s right that some learned behaviours appear to be passed on to new generations. The level of snark aimed at him over that small error is not called for, but an example of how the people disliked on this board get nitpicked and harassed over the smallest errors. The amount of snark is absolutely justified when this has been patiently explained to Honeybadger more than once\*, when he completely ignores it because it doesn’t suit his preconceptions, and when he invetiably returns a few weeks or months later to spout the same ignorant nonsense. \*see here for example: > [@Can behavior affect our DNA](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/3): > > Our behavior obviously determines whether our genetic code is passed on, as @DPRK notes. Our behavior can also affect the DNA mutation rate in germline cells through exposure to mutagens, but this is only the rate at which functionally random changes occur. In response to the environment (i.e. including our behavioral interaction with the environment), the genome in many cells is constantly modified without changing the DNA base sequence to modulate what information is read out and in what qu… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/842 "2024-02-18T23:40:54Z")
That epigenetics is a favorite hobby-horse of Creationists should tell one something. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/843 "2024-02-18T23:48:34Z")
No, it really shouldn’t, any more than Deepak Chopra abusing quantum mechanics for his woo woo nonsense is an indictment of quantum mechanics. This is elementary logic. @Riemann: Did you just write an angry rebuttal that wound up agreeing with me? I didn’t read anything in there that contradicted anything I said, other than that I should be meaner to Honeybadger. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/844 "2024-02-18T23:50:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I didn’t read anything in there that contradicted anything I said I said that some of your claims were trivially obvious and some were wrong. If you want to focus on the trivially obvious ones and say “see, I was right!”, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/845 "2024-02-18T23:53:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > No, it really shouldn’t, any more than Deepak Chopra abusing quantum mechanics for his woo woo nonsense is an indictment of quantum mechanics. This is elementary logic. Yes, it really should, when Deepak Chopra abuses quantum mechanics for his woo woo nonsense it’s an clear indication that when you hear non physicists talk about quantum mechanics red flags should go up in your head. This is elementary logic. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/846 "2024-02-18T23:54:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think each post should stand on its own, and people shouldn’t get nitpicked and harassed when they post reasonable things because of their ‘rep’. You think we should treat every post as if it’s the first post by someone new to the board? That’s not how it works here or in real life. Instead, one develops a reputation; some are known to be knowledgeable about certain subjects but not others, others are known to be knowledgeable about nothing (i.e., idiots). ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/847 "2024-02-19T00:04:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Instead, one develops a reputation; some are known to be knowledgeable about certain subjects but not others, others are known to be knowledgeable about nothing (i.e., idiots). Are you seriously suggesting that handy and Quagdop shouldn’t both be considered on equal footing when it comes to questions about medicine? That sir, is the path to ~~madness~~ malpractice! ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/848 "2024-02-19T00:07:46Z")
Hey, just do your own research, man. Stop appealing to authority. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/849 "2024-02-19T00:11:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Gentle corrections tend to work better than “you’re stupid! Go away!” Fair point. Please allow me to gently correct you in your naive impression of Honeybadger. He is in fact stupid. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/850 "2024-02-19T00:30:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It seems that Honeybadger’s error was to say that it causes your genes to change. But directionally he’s right that some learned behaviours appear to be passed on to new generations. Even with all the hedging and weasel-wording, this isn’t “directionally right” (whatever that’s supposed to mean). It’s true that there seem to be some solid findings around heritability of certain _acquired_ psychological tendencies that can be produced entirely at the physiological level. For example a parent’s behaviors can change their epigenetics in a way that causes offspring to be more anxious, less risk-seeking, or have a stronger stress response. But those aren’t learned behaviors in the parent nor in the offspring. Unless you’re in possession of new information that I’ve overlooked, no legitimate researchers are suggesting that learned behaviors are epigenetically heritable. The only sources I can find making this claim are creationist websites, but perhaps you have something different to share. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/851 "2024-02-19T00:45:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think each post should stand on its own, and people shouldn’t get nitpicked and harassed when they post reasonable things because of their ‘rep’. Because that seems to be more a case of trying to simply drive them off the board. Yes and no. Yes in the sense that prior bad behavior shouldn’t automatically invalidate everything a person posts. But no in the sense that when a person’s behavior shows a clear pattern you shouldn’t isolate each infraction. That’s just idiotic. If this is the tenth time a dog has bitten someone you don’t treat it the same way you would if it was the first time. In the case of HBDC, there is a history of good contributions once upon a time, and people lament the situation we have where those have been dispensed with and replaced by total garbage. When I was an administrator on Wikipedia I often had to make judgement calls about whether a person was a net positive or a net negative to the project, and I permanently blocked a lot of folks. Sometimes it was a no-brainer and sometimes it was a very difficult call to make. But it was part of my responsibility to do so. Mods here have a similar responsibility. When HDBC [was last suspended](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honeybadgerdc-suspended-for-a-week-until-feb-11-2024-11-59-pm-for-violating-topic-ban/997105), there was a sincere plea to return to their previous ways and be a valuable member of the community again. I don’t have much hope of that happening. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/852 "2024-02-19T00:58:03Z")
Yep, he’s an interesting one. Seems to be big on repeating conspiracy theory type garbage and misinformation and then he’s a good poster in Cafe and DIY threads. His hijacks are what will get him banned, so hopefully he avoids those going forward. I appreciate the fact he seems to have done more drawknife work then I have. Old school tools for woodworking are something I really love. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/853 "2024-02-19T04:16:57Z")
Doesn’t Sam have his own Pit thread? Isn’t he getting off sufficiently in that one without needing to take over yet another thread about how wrong he is? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/854 "2024-02-19T04:47:48Z")
Stone’s law eh, “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of it becoming the Sam\_Stone show approaches one”, ya hoser. Now go to Timmies and get me a double-double and some Timbits. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/855 "2024-02-19T06:49:13Z")
Ya know, I went up to Canada last year and had some Tim’s for the first time. Underwhelming. Now that they’re also here in Texas, I have absolutely no desire to partake again ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/856 "2024-02-19T06:52:55Z")
As a lay person i really did not care to have a discussion on the science of epigenetics, It is too far over my head anyway, I was primarily interested in discussing what types of traits might be passed on this way and how they could be identified as such as opposed to selective breeding. A lot of this science is theoretical and very difficult to positively identify. A few examples of things I would suspect might influence offspring might involve propulsion, (Swimming, flying, walking running etc.) Maybe the types of food we eat, How we hunt what we hunt etc. There is a long list of things that might be worth looking at. Then there is the matter of finding an animal that could give you the most generations in the least amount of time. Then you would have to think of ways to create conditions conducive to the goals you had. I think it is worthy of a good thread for those who care to talk about it. For those who don’t care to talk about it I don’t understand why you just don’t ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/857 "2024-02-19T07:08:11Z")
Or, to put it more succinctly, you want to have a discussion on the science of epigenetics. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/858 "2024-02-19T07:22:45Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Or, to put it more succinctly, you want to have a discussion on the science of epigenetics Yes some of the aspects of it but not all of them ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/859 "2024-02-19T08:48:56Z")
More specifically, you want to focus on your own bong-fueled reality-challenged speculations, and you actively obstruct and derail any attempt by other commenters to steer the conversation in an interesting direction. This is why people are attracted to your topics, and then get frustrated with you. There are genuinely fascinating discussions that could emerge from the subjects you introduce, if you would just allow that to happen. That’s how your threads almost invariably progress: You ask a broad question about something you poorly understand, somebody picks through the fragments and says “no that’s not right, but…” and surgically extracts a legitimate point that was buried in or adjacent to your nonsense, and other commenters latch onto that _other discussion_ and wish to carry on. But then you return and handwave the _actual good conversation_ and try to force the thread back in the direction of your original uninformed speculation. Discussions here are satisfying and edifying when they develop naturally and organically. _Your_ discussions don’t, because you stand in the way. They _could,_ if you would simply post your clumsy questions and then _stand back and let smarter people explain things to you._ But you don’t. You have these dumbshit overgeneralized beliefs from which you cannot be shaken, and you blow up _your own threads_ by insisting that people elaborate on your dumbshit beliefs instead of letting people explain why the beliefs are wrong in order to clear the way to find the actually interesting tidbits that are genuinely worth expanding on. If you did that, you might find yourself illuminated by the conversation that follows. But you don’t. You find some ridiculous butthole, you stick your head firmly into it, and then, when everyone attempts to pull you out so the interesting thing that is _next to_ the butthole can be considered, you fight back. Incidentally, I don’t expect you to accept or even really to understand this. I don’t make a habit of arguing directly with stupid people, because it’s a waste of time. This is offered for the other thread participants who are still perplexed as to why your presence here is seen as so irritating and disruptive. But if you _do_ manage to glean some comprehension out of this and improve your behavior, Christ, it would make the board a better place. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/860 "2024-02-19T09:38:01Z")
Not going to happen. That particular poster is unable to not trot out their inanities and threadshit. Right now HBDC and DD are on my anchor pool for the next two self-inflicted suicide by mod. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183.md?page=44)