# Pitting Honeybadger **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183 "2018-03-07T15:40:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/121 "2018-03-08T02:51:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > **moron1972** , you really stepped on your little dicklet in this thread. > It’s been enjoyable watching you fail, Pussums. 😉 The Pit ain’t what it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/122 "2018-03-08T03:28:22Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Gottdamn, we’ve overstayed our welcome! You’ve been here a lot longer than I have, dear. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/123 "2018-03-08T03:42:45Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Yep and meanwhile, while you are waiting for this to happen millions of lives continue to live far beneath their potential. I have no doubt your hearts in the right place but it isn’t helping much. And as for stereo types. These stereo types don’t persist without a reason. Recognizing statistics does not make one a racist. It gives us information about where we should be addressing problems. How do you know that I’m doing nothing? And stereotypes are cognitive, frequently-inaccurate shortcuts. Next? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/124 "2018-03-08T04:10:27Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Of course she’s pitted people. In fact, I thought I remembered her pitting me way back in 2000. [Turns out I pitted her!](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=10374) This was back when the board allowed joke pittings, of course. > > What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Nothing. I just thought **Bigs** might have a giggle at the memory. Fuck’s sake, I just got all misty looking at that thread. Jerks. . ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/125 "2018-03-08T04:24:29Z")
Wait, did the Pittee answer my questions? Here they are, again, in case he missed them: > [@raventhief](#): > > Do you similarly gripe about white boys who harass girls, bully and shove people, use foul language and “generally act like thugs”? > [@raventhief](#): > > And are those white boys drawing negative attention to their race? As a white woman who’s attended school in recent AND less recent years, I think my opinion matters in terms of what he thinks he’s observed. Let me tell you- I’ve been harassed by white boys, and never, in my memory, " black thugs." Hell, all the students used foul language, so that’s hardly a signifying factor. Bullying? In HS, lo so many years ago, white boys more than black. In college? Didn’t really see it at all. So, original Pittee, please, convince us that your observations aren’t pure confirmation bias. Do you just not SEE the white bad behaviour at all? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/126 "2018-03-08T04:56:41Z")
Bud Lite? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/127 "2018-03-08T05:05:19Z")
I have 2 black female acquaintances, both of whom are expecting their firstborn child within the next month. Both of them did get married for the first time within recent years. One of them is a stepmom since her husband had one child out of wedlock in a relationship that didn’t work. And the other is married to a guy significantly older who has at minimum a bit of a “past.” While there are exceptions which cut both ways, the reality is over 75% of black children in the states are born to unmarried parents and this has meaningful correlation in outcomes. You can try to find ways to rationalize the difference away; won’t work, it’s like saying the only reason black male students are disproportionately suspended and expelled is institutional racism. I would definitely give my moral support to these 2 women even though their circumstances may not be ideal. I think it’s commendable they waited and were in stable committed relationships before becoming mothers. I would not necessarily shame adults who choose to become parents in much different circumstances and I’ll go so far to say I think systemized racism is a huge causal factor in why black families overall are more broken to this day. What I won’t do is act like I don’t think personal choices have nothing to do with inequality. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/128 "2018-03-08T11:49:26Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Bud Lite? 😛 That’s how the Milwaukee’s Best drinkers show off. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/129 "2018-03-08T13:55:11Z")
Yesterday, I was on the train when a group of teen and tween boys, all black I think, got on. They were pretty loud and a little rambunctious. One or two sat near me, with others catercorner from me, kind of surrounding a middle aged white guy who had been sitting there when they got on. So, the goofing off continues for a little while, then the MAWG stands up and starts yelling at the kids, that he pays for them to be in school and he pays for them to be on the metro and they ought to have and show RESPECT FOR HIM because of that. One of the kids said, “What the fuck you yelling at ME for? I didn’t do anything to you.” And that seemed to be true. I didn’t witness everything, and yes, they were loud, but I sure didn’t see anything threatening or disrespectful or anything but a group of kids being loud and goofing off. I remember being that age, and holy hell were we loud. A bunch of white kids from the sticks, shouting and running and jostling and goofing off. And I know we got yelled at sometimes for being too loud and rowdy. But I don’t remember anyone telling us that we should show them respect because they are paying for our school and our bus. We were expected to show respect when we visited monuments in DC, but this was a bunch of kids on their own time. And yes, I know that teens in a pack can be very disruptive, but those are teens of any race. I’m guessing that guy probably got off that train feeling outraged and threatened because some loud black kids sat near him and lived their lives. And I’m guessing, having been a loud white kid, that he wouldn’t have treated loud white kids the same way. He wouldn’t have demanded humility before their kind benefactor. I could be wrong. He could yell at teens and clouds all the time. And maybe he is someone who was never loud as a teen. Maybe he had no friends. Maybe he spent his formative years in a monastery. But that’s not the way I’d bet. And I would guess that isn’t the way those kids would bet, either. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/130 "2018-03-08T13:59:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Hey now… he’s somebody’s uncle. Imagine Thanksgiving without him. Oh, so he’s Drunk Uncle. That makes him easier to deal with, imagining him like the SNL character. [Here’s a classic…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-3wZFHoU-8) “The holiday season has Drunk Uncle (Bobby Moynihan) ranting about technology, the sexy green M&M lady and how he’s getting his lesbian niece a boyfriend for Christmas.” (written by Seth Myers, I believe) ETA: [Another one, with Peter “Drunklage”…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOElj5M_r88) talking taxes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/131 "2018-03-08T14:08:15Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > Yesterday, I was on the train when a group of teen and tween boys, all black I think, got on. They were pretty loud and a little rambunctious. One or two sat near me, with others catercorner from me, kind of surrounding a middle aged white guy who had been sitting there when they got on. > > So, the goofing off continues for a little while, then the MAWG stands up and starts yelling at the kids, that he pays for them to be in school and he pays for them to be on the metro and they ought to have and show RESPECT FOR HIM because of that. One of the kids said, “What the fuck you yelling at ME for? I didn’t do anything to you.” And that seemed to be true. I didn’t witness everything, and yes, they were loud, but I sure didn’t see anything threatening or disrespectful or anything but a group of kids being loud and goofing off. > > I remember being that age, and holy hell were we loud. A bunch of white kids from the sticks, shouting and running and jostling and goofing off. And I know we got yelled at sometimes for being too loud and rowdy. But I don’t remember anyone telling us that we should show them respect because they are paying for our school and our bus. We were expected to show respect when we visited monuments in DC, but this was a bunch of kids on their own time. And yes, I know that teens in a pack can be very disruptive, but those are teens of any race. > > I’m guessing that guy probably got off that train feeling outraged and threatened because some loud black kids sat near him and lived their lives. And I’m guessing, having been a loud white kid, that he wouldn’t have treated loud white kids the same way. He wouldn’t have demanded humility before their kind benefactor. > > I could be wrong. He could yell at teens and clouds all the time. And maybe he is someone who was never loud as a teen. Maybe he had no friends. Maybe he spent his formative years in a monastery. > > But that’s not the way I’d bet. And I would guess that isn’t the way those kids would bet, either. As a daily DC Metro rider, I’ve seen similar events many times. Teens act like teens, no matter their background or race. For some reason, black teens acting like teens triggers unreasonable fear in many white people. I don’t think the reason is particularly mysterious – these folks have been conditioned by society and culture to be fearful of black teenagers, and thus otherwise mundane behavior can spark fear in these people when performed by black teens. I imagine that virtually none of these folks would see themselves as having any racist impulses or beliefs, and they’d probably swear that black teens really act differently. Which reminds of me of the target of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/132 "2018-03-08T15:26:36Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > I have 2 black female acquaintances, both of whom are expecting their firstborn child within the next month. Both of them did get married for the first time within recent years. One of them is a stepmom since her husband had one child out of wedlock in a relationship that didn’t work. And the other is married to a guy significantly older who has at minimum a bit of a “past.” While there are exceptions which cut both ways, the reality is over 75% of black children in the states are born to unmarried parents and this has meaningful correlation in outcomes. You can try to find ways to rationalize the difference away; won’t work, it’s like saying the only reason black male students are disproportionately suspended and expelled is institutional racism. > > I would definitely give my moral support to these 2 women even though their circumstances may not be ideal. I think it’s commendable they waited and were in stable committed relationships before becoming mothers. I would not necessarily shame adults who choose to become parents in much different circumstances and I’ll go so far to say I think systemized racism is a huge causal factor in why black families overall are more broken to this day. What I won’t do is act like I don’t think personal choices have nothing to do with inequality. The only reason black male students are disproportionately suspended and expelled is institutional racism. You say you’re acknowledging the role systemic and historic racism (and generational poverty?) plays in peoples’ lives, but then continue with the old “personal responsibility” thing as though individual choices are made in a vacuum without context. Or rather, without your own preferred context. . ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/133 "2018-03-08T15:58:51Z")
I believe it’s a combination of the two. My statement was simply intended to say I don’t think 100% of the discrepancy in disciplinary situations is unrelated to poor choices, arguably including defective cultural norms. I don’t think 100% of the discrepancy in unwise reproduction decisions can be chalked up to racism, past and present; there are tools, not least of which, is often birth control. One area I’d mostly differ with HoneyBadger is some of the cultural norms like usage of proper English. I wouldn’t necessarily feel bothered if I knew my acquaintances raised their children in a household where speaking proper English wasn’t the norm, as long avoiding it’s not taken to the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/134 "2018-03-08T16:28:15Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I remember being that age, and holy hell were we loud. A bunch of white kids from the sticks, shouting and running and jostling and goofing off. And I know we got yelled at sometimes for being too loud and rowdy. But I don’t remember anyone telling us that we should show them respect because they are paying for our school and our bus. Same here. A bunch of us commuter students rode the local bus to high school in the city and sat in the back and gabbled and laughed, and not infrequently loudly sang John Denver and Barry Manilow songs accompanied by one or two of the guys who played guitar. (Yes, I still know all the lyrics to “You Done Stomped on My Heart” and “Feelings”.) I defy any complainers about the black teens of today to describe an instance of schoolkids being more disruptive on public transit than **that**. Yet I don’t remember any adult ever saying a single word to us about treating the public bus like our own living room and making noisy nuisances of ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/135 "2018-03-08T16:47:11Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > I have 2 black female acquaintances, both of whom are expecting their firstborn child within the next month. Both of them did get married for the first time within recent years. One of them is a stepmom since her husband had one child out of wedlock in a relationship that didn’t work. And the other is married to a guy significantly older who has at minimum a bit of a “past.” While there are exceptions which cut both ways, the reality is over 75% of black children in the states are born to unmarried parents and this has meaningful correlation in outcomes. Hmm. A woman I know married a guy with a child out of wedlock from a relationship that didn’t work. Oh, and he had a bit of a “past” since his ex was a crazy person who is now in jail, so there were lots and lots of cops and trials and fun stuff like that. The guy is my brother. He’s pretty white. I sincerely doubt most people would be stringing these sentences together about the two of them, especially given that you start talking about unmarried parents _in the context of two women who are married._ It’s almost like there’s something that makes you go there. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/136 "2018-03-08T17:56:30Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > I believe it’s a combination of the two. My statement was simply intended to say I don’t think 100% of the discrepancy in disciplinary situations is unrelated to poor choices, arguably including defective cultural norms. I don’t think 100% of the discrepancy in unwise reproduction decisions can be chalked up to racism, past and present; there are tools, not least of which, is often birth control. > > One area I’d mostly differ with HoneyBadger is some of the cultural norms like usage of proper English. I wouldn’t necessarily feel bothered if I knew my acquaintances raised their children in a household where speaking proper English wasn’t the norm, as long avoiding it’s not taken to the extreme. I agree with you on the proper English, I think that just comes with more exposure to diverse cultures, usually in school or college. In the past 10 years I have noticed a huge difference, improvement in proper English usage and less pronounced accents or whatever it is we call it. All these things help out a lot and they also help to diminish the effects of stereo typing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/137 "2018-03-08T17:59:27Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I agree with you on the proper English, I think that just comes with more exposure to diverse cultures, usually in school or college. In the past 10 years I have noticed a huge difference, improvement in proper English usage and less pronounced accents or whatever it is we call it. All these things help out a lot and they also help to diminish the effects of stereo typing. I love how you, an old white dude, are claiming other people are improved by exposure to diverse cultures as you rail against… diverse cultures. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/138 "2018-03-08T18:07:37Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > I don’t think 100% of the discrepancy in unwise reproduction decisions can be chalked up to racism, past and present; there are tools, not least of which, is often birth control. Since birth control costs money, can you see the possibility that a group that doesn’t have very much money (like groups that experience generational poverty due to racism) might have limited access to birth control? ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/139 "2018-03-08T18:37:11Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I agree with you on the **proper English** , I think that just comes with more exposure to diverse cultures, usually in school or college. In the past 10 years I have noticed a huge difference, improvement in proper English usage and less pronounced accents or whatever it is we call it. All these things help out a lot and they also help to diminish the effects of **stereo typing**. (bolding mine) The irony… it burns… ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183/140 "2018-03-08T18:56:06Z")
> [@Wilson](#): > > (bolding mine) > > The irony… it burns… I feely admit my English is not all that good, but it was good enough to carry me through my career choices. All I would expect from anyone is to do the best they can in any areas not just language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-honeybadger/810183.md?page=8)