# Pitting idiots who refuse to leave their home in the face of impending doom **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639 "2009-09-02T15:40:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/21 "2009-09-03T00:17:45Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > According to Wiki’s [U.S. Disasters by Death Toll](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_disasters_by_death_toll), California barely rates compared to the hurricane states. Of course, the list spans centuries and includes wars, but still - not all of California is southern California. Here in the SF area, fires are relatively rare. I feel much safer here than I did in the South or Midwest, with their seemingly constant hurricane/tornado warnings. Well, the people living in the hills outside Santa Cruz might not agree. When I lived in New Jersey, there were fairly regular snowstorms - not nearly as bad as a fire, but some idiots got themselves killed for not knowing how to drive. Here we only get disasters infrequently, but when they come they are doozies. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/22 "2009-09-03T00:25:09Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Well, the people living in the hills outside Santa Cruz might not agree. I guess if you consider Santa Cruz the SF area, you’d be right. I don’t, any more than I consider Sacramento the SF area. When I said I feel safer here, I meant “here” as in San Francisco/Oakland/Berkeley. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/23 "2009-09-03T00:54:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, here’s the thing. The professional firefighters aren’t going to spend all day at just your house wetting down the roof and the ground, then putting out any little stray sparks. > > Unless the fire goes really bad (which has happened,like in Victoria) it’s not all that dangerous. Now, personally, I’d make my Signif other leave with the cats and a few valuables, don my old volunteer firefighter gear, and stay to fight. Unless the wind was bad and they were talking firestorm. Anyone who stays behind to hose their roof down during a massive fire is stupid and suicidal. Hosing down the roof can reduce the water pressure needed by firefighters, and it may not help anyway. I’d rather be safe somewhere else than to be in danger trying to save my house. The rest of it is that the Santa Ana winds are bad. When the winds die down and there is some humidity in the air, it’s much easier to fight the fire. Until then, though… ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/24 "2009-09-03T00:55:54Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > (And best wishes to the Australian firefighters who are no doubt helping to fight the blazes in California right now, returning the favour of the California firefighters who came here in February.) I’m not so sure - we’re having bushfires here already this season, and were two weeks ago _when it was still officially winter_. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/25 "2009-09-03T01:23:33Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I guess if you consider Santa Cruz the SF area, you’d be right. I don’t, any more than I consider Sacramento the SF area. When I said I feel safer here, I meant “here” as in San Francisco/Oakland/Berkeley. Are you to young to remember the big fire in the Oakland Berkeley hills? I recall it burning a lot of houses. More that were burnt in the 2007 San Diego fires. Or the 2003 fires. > **[Oakland firestorm of 1991](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Firestorm_of_1991)** > > The Oakland firestorm of 1991, also known as the Tunnel Fire, was a large suburban wildland–urban interface conflagration that occurred on the hillsides of northern Oakland, California, and southeastern Berkeley over the weekend of October 19–20, 1991, before being brought under full control on October 23. The official name of this incident by Cal Fire is the Tunnel Fire. It is also commonly referred to as the Oakland Hills firestorm or the East Bay Hills fire. The fire ultimately killed 25 pe ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/26 "2009-09-03T01:59:21Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Here’s [a nice little map](http://www.gismaps.fema.gov/historical.pdf) (Caution: **PDF** ) that shows the frequency of Presidential disaster declaractions from late 1964 to early this year. You’ll notice that some states have a lot more color to them–California is by no means the worst, but there are a lot of states that have had a lot fewer declared emergencies. Since when are fishing losses a Disaster? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/27 "2009-09-03T02:55:47Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Are you to young to remember the big fire in the Oakland Berkeley hills? > I recall it burning a lot of houses. More that were burnt in the 2007 San Diego fires. Or the 2003 fires. > [Oakland firestorm of 1991 - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Firestorm_of_1991) Nope, I was here for it. It was also almost 20 years ago, and not an annual event like the fires in SoCal. Hence, my saying I feel safer here than in other areas. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/28 "2009-09-03T09:36:39Z")
Tell me, are there _free_ places for evacuees to go? Because otherwise, I can believe a lot of people have to figure economics into it. “I can stay at home for free and maybe even save my house that would otherwise burn OR I can abandon it and have to spend hundreds of dollars a day for room and board.” Because not everyone will have friends/family who can put them up within driving distance but outside the range of the fire. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/29 "2009-09-03T11:16:44Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Since when are fishing losses a Disaster? If you live in an area dependent on fishing for most of the economy, and your a fisherman, and your spouse works in the fish canning factory in town… I could see “fishing losses” being, at least potentially, a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/30 "2009-09-03T11:17:29Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > [Xeriscape](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeriscaping) I was close in pronunciation at least =) I like the idea of not making cookie cutter green grassy yards. I like diversity. Why force green lawns on a desert, or a subtropical place like Key West…there are way cool plants everywhere. In florida my grandparents house had white marble chips as the lawn, and they had a pair of orange trees, and decorative rocks with neat plants bedded in around the yard. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/31 "2009-09-03T14:29:11Z")
Anybody reminded of that old joke with the guy who’s house was in a flood plain? Short version (not told well): He was told to evacuate. He refused to go. He said “the Lord will take care of me.” The water was up above his front steps. His neighbor stopped by in a rowboat and offered to take him. He refused to go. He said “the Lord will take care of me.” The water was up over the second floor. A rescue team in a powerboat came by to pick him up. He refused to go. He said “the Lord will take care of me.” The water was up to his roof. A helicopter team came to get him. He refused to go. He said “the Lord will take care of me.” The water rose over his roof and he died. When he got to heaven, he asked the Lord, “Why didn’t you take care of me?” The Lord responded, “I warned you. Then I sent you a rowboat, a powerboat, AND a helicopter! what more did you want?” ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/32 "2009-09-03T14:56:03Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Tell me, are there _free_ places for evacuees to go? Because otherwise, I can believe a lot of people have to figure economics into it. “I can stay at home for free and maybe even save my house that would otherwise burn OR I can abandon it and have to spend hundreds of dollars a day for room and board.” > > Because not everyone will have friends/family who can put them up within driving distance but outside the range of the fire. And that’s _exactly_ what happened in New Orleans during/after Hurricane Katrina. The shelters are free. However, if you don’t have a car, and there are only so many shelters scattered about the city, you might have to spend some money for transportation to the shelter. If you have sick or disabled family members, this problem is exacerbated by an order of magnitude. Another factor to consider is that many, if not most, shelters do not allow pets. I have three and would have to stay in a hotel because I would _never_ abandon my pets to fend for themselves in a hurricane. So it would cost me money to evacuate. I do have a couple friends who live several hours north of me so _if_ I could get to them I could stay for free… \*if \*they don’t mind me introducing my critters to their critters. That’s a lot of ifs, so I plan for evacuation to cost me. All La Quinta hotels accept pets, and I think all Motel 6s accept pets as well. I clicked on this thread to talk about the morons in Florida (and other hurricane-prone states) who refuse to leave. But then I thought about Katrina, and sometimes, if you’re flat broke and you don’t own a car and all of your family and friends are in the same boat… sometimes there really is no other choice. That said, I think it’s mostly inexcusable to be completely oblivious to the news/weather when you live in a hurricane prone area and not have a plan. There is some element of “it can’t happen to me” at work here. There is also the attitude that some people underestimate the power of hurricanes and think they are going to run outside and nail a few shingles back on to their roof in the middle of a storm. After enduring your first hurricane, you don’t make that same stupid assumption twice. Even in a weak hurricane, you learn quickly that you’d be taking your life in your hand by attempting such a stunt. My rule of thumb is: If the storm is a weak Cat 3 or lower; that is, sustained winds under 110 mph, then I don’t go anywhere. I am well aware of what my house can withstand and what it cannot and I live on high ground, well away from flood-prone areas. When winds hit 111+, my policy is to get the f••k outta Dodge, with my critters. Looking at the data on NOAA and NHC websites, it looks like that is about the threshold between “some damage, but endurable and live-through-able” and “complete devastation.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/33 "2009-09-03T15:24:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s true, but actually CA is moderate in risk. Worst are the Hurricane states. Agreed, there are worse states–but that’s not what you said. You stated (perhaps hyperbolically) that California was **no worse than any other state** , when that’s clearly not the case. It certainly looks to be in the top 10, per the map I linked. > [@pedescribe](#): > > Since when are fishing losses a Disaster? Since they can presumably cause as big an impact on the economy of an area as a tornado through a farming area that avoids houses but hits fields. If you look at the numbers, that particular disaster was five incidences out of 1,628: that’s about 0.31%. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/34 "2009-09-03T15:30:18Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Not everybody owns enough crap for a fullsized Mayflower semi =) So the fact that you guys would be all packed, thus not losing any worldly possessions, isn’t because you’re “not idiots” but because you have less stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/35 "2009-09-03T15:30:58Z")
Well, hey! I just found FEMA’s list of declared disasters by state. [Guess who’s #2.](http://www.fema.gov/news/disaster_totals_annual.fema) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/36 "2009-09-03T16:19:38Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Well, hey! I just found FEMA’s list of declared disasters by state. > > [Guess who’s #2.](http://www.fema.gov/news/disaster_totals_annual.fema) Note that that’s a list of _number_ of disasters _declared_, and it follows almost exactly states by population then size. No surprise that CA- being the most populous state and one of the largest has a pretty good number of disasters declared. (More important states are better at using leverage at getting a Federal Disaster declared in borderline cases) Only OK is out of place in the top 5. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/37 "2009-09-03T16:32:08Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Nope, I was here for it. It was also almost 20 years ago, and not an annual event like the fires in SoCal. Hence, my saying I feel safer here than in other areas. SoCal is about 20 to 30 times larger or more than your definition of the greater bay area. So I am not sure you have good evidence for it being much safer from fires. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/38 "2009-09-03T16:57:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note that that’s a list of _number_ of disasters _declared_, and it follows almost exactly states by population then size. Certainly, sheer square mileage and population are going to factor in. However, that’s not going to be the sole determiner. Surely you concede that given disasters are much more likely to occur in some areas than others. For instance, nobody would be surprised by a hurricane in Florida, but one in North Dakota would raise some eyebrows. There is no magic equalibrium of disasters that every square mile of the country strives to maintain–being less likely to have Disaster A does not make Disaster B more likely. So, it is only natural that some areas of the country, just by virtue of their geography, are going to be more prone to disasters than others. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/39 "2009-09-03T17:25:58Z")
I think people who stay in the face of a disaster are crazy. But that is their right. If they think their stuff is worth risking their life over, it is not my business to make the decision for them. I like storms and when I was in a hurricane ,I sat on the porch of the motel and watched it. I wanted to see what it looked like and sounded like. It seems to take a long time to get by and when the eye comes through you realize it is only half done and the winds will now come for the opposite direction. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639/40 "2009-09-03T17:37:33Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I think people who stay in the face of a disaster are crazy. But that is their right. If they think their stuff is worth risking their life over, it is not my business to make the decision for them. > I like storms and when I was in a hurricane ,I sat on the porch of the motel and watched it. I wanted to see what it looked like and sounded like. It seems to take a long time to get by and when the eye comes through you realize it is only half done and the winds will now come for the opposite direction. Fine. But when you get in real trouble you may expect rescue thus putting other people’s life in danger. Read the article linked in the OP and you can see an instance where rescuers had to perform a dangerous rescue to pluck idiots who stayed in the face of the fire. I like the idea above. Have everyone who wants to stay sign a waiver that they are on their own for the duration of that given threat. If they get in real trouble they’ll just have to deal with it on their own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-idiots-who-refuse-to-leave-their-home-in-the-face-of-impending-doom/508639.md?page=3)